View Poll Results: Should pragmatist be charged with provoking hate crimes?

Voters
4. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, pragmatism is provocative.

    0 0%
  • Yes, pragmatism leads to prejudice.

    1 25.00%
  • No, pragmatism is not provocative.

    4 100.00%
  • No, pragmatism does not lead to prejudice.

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 56

Thread: Pragmatism and Racism

  1. #41
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 03:32 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Pragmatism and Racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Would you agree it's pragmatic to conclude that Kenyans are good at running Marathons, or that blacks excel at basketball or football?

    No. Looking at such competitors from ethnic or racial perspectives is dogmatic racism. 99% of Kenyans are not superior at running marathons and 99% of African Americans do not excel at basketball or football more than others. It is dogmatic racism (by you) to fixate on the 1% reasoning, ignoring the decisive other 99%.

    For example, you could have stated that tall people excel at basketball and that people from regions of high altitudes and hot climates where walking long distances has been a social requirement for countless generations excel at track events. But YOU picked RACE/ethnicity and claimed THAT was your basis for what you call logic, when I call it based in dogmatic racism.

    You are making your case for racism that is a fairly old one at the academic level - calling it being pragmatic.

  2. #42
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    09-18-12 @ 08:07 AM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    3,245

    Re: Pragmatism and Racism

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    No. Looking at such competitors from ethnic or racial perspectives is dogmatic racism. 99% of Kenyans are not superior at running marathons and 99% of African Americans do not excel at basketball or football more than others. It is dogmatic racism (by you) to fixate on the 1% reasoning, ignoring the decisive other 99%.

    For example, you could have stated that tall people excel at basketball and that people from regions of high altitudes and hot climates where walking long distances has been a social requirement for countless generations excel at track events. But YOU picked RACE/ethnicity and claimed THAT was your basis for what you call logic, when I call it based in dogmatic racism.

    You are making your case for racism that is a fairly old one at the academic level - calling it being pragmatic.
    When people don't have the attention to spare, dogma and practice are the same thing.

    The question at hand deals with comparing elites as well. 99% of people in the world don't even play basketball competitively.

  3. #43
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,357

    Re: Pragmatism and Racism

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I think I would interprete his statement as meaning a person can be a racist and foster that racism in terms of him/herself, but should keep quiet about that self to others and in public. Yes, scary.
    Proposing that some things are ok, but only underground - is messed up. Any way we cut it.

  4. #44
    On Vacation
    joko104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Last Seen
    12-03-17 @ 03:32 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    31,568
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Pragmatism and Racism

    What you are arguing is a very old topic.

    There was a college professor who taught that as a matter of scientific fact, people of African heritage are stronger and physically tougher than those of European ancestry, but that people of European ancestry had superior intellect. To prove the latter, he claimed that it was proven that of equal body size, more beans would fit into the brain cavity of European skulls than African's skulls.

    For that, he argued society was harming African-Americans by denying truth including in education. That African-Americans should be trained towards manual skills jobs, while whites more towards non-physical labor skills. Of course, in real terms he was arguing that whites should be management and blacks should be their laborers.

    Ultimately he was fired. But whether his teaching should be allowed at a state university was debated a long time and from almost every direction - including your's in his defense - until finally someone asked "is that even true?"

    Turned out it was a lie. There was no evidence whatsoever that Europeans had larger brains than Africans.

  5. #45
    Sage
    jet57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    not here
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:52 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    24,681

    Re: Pragmatism and Racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Pragmatism and the Problem of Race - Bill E. Lawson, Donald F. Koch - Google Books

    This is an excellent article on how encouraging pragmatic thinking in society encourages racist (among generally prejudiced) thought in general.

    It's common sense really. People's attention spans are only so wide, so when we demand that people make decisions a certain way, that decision making process will carry over throughout life.

    Therefore, people who encourage pragmatism should be charged with provocation of hate crimes.
    I'll admit that I blew through the article, however my opinion is that pragmatism is not at the root of racism, but rather leadership is. We find prejudice examined by Nietzsche to be quite simply a matter of social acceptability as determeed by the leader(s) of a given society. Pragmatism is no more than the effect of the cause: I don't think Dewy understood that at the time. Neither did the poor south prior to the Civil War.

    Philosophy of course is a pragmatic inquiry: the trouble with predjudice however is that it is a metaphysical thing that protects us from poisonous foods on the primal level, and feeds social acceptability on the level of racism. Fear as a factor of rascism is only the result of desiring to remain socially accepted. This fear of course carried no weight in pre civil war Lousiana. Racism in this day and age of course is only used to advance a specific rhetoric on one side or the other of the issue.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  6. #46
    Professor

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    MI and AZ
    Last Seen
    03-15-15 @ 01:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    1,581

    Re: Pragmatism and Racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    I know. It scares me how many idiots are treated like adults today without having to demonstrate maturity.

    They're exposed to pop culture on a daily basis, and many of them take it seriously. They don't care about logical fallacies because everyone around uses the same bad logic.

    Pragmatism is a very dangerous idea because it allows for imperfect solutions. In politics that means expecting some people to fall through the cracks for the good of society. Furthermore, nobody cares because dead men tell no tales.

    A perfect example of this is how affirmative activists don't care if some white, straight, males suffer just so minorities can recover. They say society is a collective, and that individuals who want to be treated with respect are selfish.

    I can’t think of any situation where some white, straight, males suffer for any reason especially so minorities can recover. In fact I can't think of any successful demographic group that has suffered when some minority recovers. Please describe a real one for me.
    Then, what is an “affirmative activist”? Could that be someone that is promoting table tennis for its health benefits and because it uses less space than other sports? Your terms are not specific .

  7. #47
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Last Seen
    09-18-12 @ 08:07 AM
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    3,245

    Re: Pragmatism and Racism

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    I can’t think of any situation where some white, straight, males suffer for any reason especially so minorities can recover. In fact I can't think of any successful demographic group that has suffered when some minority recovers. Please describe a real one for me.
    Then, what is an “affirmative activist”? Could that be someone that is promoting table tennis for its health benefits and because it uses less space than other sports? Your terms are not specific .
    Here's a hint.

    Every white, straight, male doesn't come from an affluent background. Many come from dilapidated backgrounds where their upbringings coincide with affirmatively active policies. The implication is affirmative activists don't care as long as minorities become successful.

    A perfect example of this is the bullying epidemic where white, straight, males are discriminated against. If they're bullied by minorities, the minorities are given an excuse to be let off the hook due to their supposedly difficult circumstances. White, straight, males are humiliated into pragmatism, and expected to suffer for the greater good.

  8. #48
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,857
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Pragmatism and Racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    What about the practice of evaluating what someone can do before seeing someone do anything?
    Happens every single time someone puts in thier application to a job.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #49
    Global Moderator
    The Truth is out there.
    Kal'Stang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bonners Ferry ID USA
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,857
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Pragmatism and Racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    That's like blaming weak people for getting sick after everyone's been sneezed on.

    You're also prejudiced against dumb people now. Everyone doesn't have attention to spare in developing multiple decision making methods.
    How in the world did you get all that out of what I said?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  10. #50
    Professor

    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    MI and AZ
    Last Seen
    03-15-15 @ 01:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    1,581

    Re: Pragmatism and Racism

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Here's a hint.

    Every white, straight, male doesn't come from an affluent background. Many come from dilapidated backgrounds where their upbringings coincide with affirmatively active policies. The implication is affirmative activists don't care as long as minorities become successful.

    A perfect example of this is the bullying epidemic where white, straight, males are discriminated against. If they're bullied by minorities, the minorities are given an excuse to be let off the hook due to their supposedly difficult circumstances. White, straight, males are humiliated into pragmatism, and expected to suffer for the greater good.
    Please, you write "a perfect example", but you don't give an example. You suggest there is a bunch. Give us some examples you are thinking of.
    Also, note that there are minorities of minorities that turn their minority status into a badge of honor as a way to win. Some 'whites' copy this in their developed style. These cases don't count in this topic.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •