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Are you for or against vote ID to vote?

Are you for or against vote ID to vote?


  • Total voters
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I'm not sure that's true. Some few may say that but overall I think a lot of concerns are the same concerns I've expressed. Once it was established that ID's would be free many people said "OK" because that addressed their concern. In addition to cost my hang-up has been the time-frame and once we get past that I'll say "OK", as will many others. By the time these concerns are actually addressed instead of just laughed at as "excuses" I think you'll find most will be in agreement and there won't be an issue.

No, this has been going on for a long time and you get people who not only demand that it be free, they don't want anyone required to go do anything to get it. Like... get their picture taken, or go to the DMV or post office or whatever. They want absolutely no requirements of any kind and if there is any requirement, even up to sending in a form, the whole idea fails.

The only real concern left after those is the government tracking people, which many see as a step closer to Big Brother - and that concern comes from both sides of the aisle. Personally, I think those people are behind the times or, in their view, already too late. ;)

Of course they're too late and paranoia is not impressive, sorry.
 
I would say that they have chosen to not have a voice. Not always, but for the most part, in today's society, if you don't have a valid ID of some sort, it's because it wasn't that big of a deal to you. Even people who lose their driver's licenses for whatever reason can get valid state-issued IDs for everyday use.

As a general rule. There will, of course, be some exceptions to this general rule, but they will be just that... exceptions.

And if those "exceptions" didnt tend to vote Dem this wouldnt be happening.

The ID requirement is just the tip of the iceberg.

Longer lines while IDs are checked. (Bet there will be more polling places/hours in Repub. Districts)

Challenges. Its not just a picture but your address they'll be challenging.

ID is just the beginning of the disenfranchisement process.

(And i also wonder how long it'll be before they just chip us and get it over with)
 
The move to try to have voter ID has been an ongoing issue for at least 4 election periods as a major push and for even longer before not as controversial. 2000 seems to be the real beginning of the push with the Bush FL issue. Many laws seem to be awaiting pre-clearence under Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act or have only recently received it. So this isn't a new issue or even a rush job for this election.

While I won't comment on the rest of the site (because I have not looked it over) this page seems to be made of purely factual information regarding voter ID laws, with no bias in either direction. Wikipedia also has a page with some history on the issue but it's Wikipedia so take with a grain of salt and check the references.
The Republicans tried a photo ID law here in 2007 (IIRC) and the State Supreme Court shot it down. How much thought do you suppose went into a law that gets shot down inside of 6 months? Obviously there was some zeal in getting it passed. They tried a second time in 2009 but it didn't pass because of a study done by our State Secretary about the number of people that would get left out. Considering our budget problems they're still working on that issue. In the end we'll likely end up with free State ID cards, which currently cost $30 for six years, but that amounts to ~$10M, which is a lot of money right now.
 
Of course they're too late and paranoia is not impressive, sorry.
Trust me, I wasn't agreeing with them. We're waaaay past that. I'm old enough to remember when we couldn't be tracked at all (except our jobs) so I've watched it all happen.

No, this has been going on for a long time and you get people who not only demand that it be free, they don't want anyone required to go do anything to get it. Like... get their picture taken, or go to the DMV or post office or whatever. They want absolutely no requirements of any kind and if there is any requirement, even up to sending in a form, the whole idea fails.
Photo ID hasn't been happening for a long time here. We resolved our ID issue a long time ago and it wasn't with a photo requirement. I don't care what the rest of the country has been doing.

Personally, I think it's paranoia on the side that wants photo ID's but I'm OK with it once we get the problems resolved. If it'll make some people sleep better at night then it doesn't bother me to coddle them as long as it's not a major imposition on others.
 
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Trust me, I wasn't agreeing with them. We're waaaay past that. I'm old enough to remember when we couldn't be tracked at all (except our jobs) so I've watched it all happen.

It's not just the government that can track you today. Welcome to the modern world. You can be tracked a million different ways every day.

Personally, I think it's paranoia on the side that wants photo ID's but I'm OK with it once we get the problems resolved. If it'll make some people sleep better at night then it doesn't bother me to coddle them as long as it's not a major imposition on others.

The only people who have a right to vote in this country are actual, legal American citizens. We have a massive illegal alien problem in this country as well as an absurd number of people who want to throw open the borders and let anyone who wants to wander across the border do so and get all the rights of citizens without being citizens. That's why we need to ensure that only people legally permitted to vote actually do.
 
I agree with your second statement but would also add that change is not necessarily better, either. I simply see no good reason to insist on photo ID at this late stage. As a long-term, as in a couple of years, goal I have no problem with it. What I have a problem with is politicians pushing something through then insisting it be implemented in a few, short months.

Why did they wait until 2012 to get these laws passed?
Why must they be enforced without a reasonable grace period for people to conform to the new laws?

- and I don't mean reasonable to those who already have or could easily get an ID. I mean to those who don't have ID"s and can't easily get them for various reasons. If voter fraud was such a HUGE problem then these laws should have been passed in 2009 or 2010 and there would have been two years or more for people with problems to figure out how to get ID's. Since everything had to be rush-rush at the last minute the only assumption I can make is that there is a political agenda here that's using voter fraud as a convenient excuse to leave a group of legit voters out in the cold.
I agree that it should be phased in over a reasonable period of time.
 
It's not just the government that can track you today. Welcome to the modern world. You can be tracked a million different ways every day.
Of course you can! Like I said, I've watched it happen. Where do you think Google makes all it's money?

The only people who have a right to vote in this country are actual, legal American citizens. We have a massive illegal alien problem in this country as well as an absurd number of people who want to throw open the borders and let anyone who wants to wander across the border do so and get all the rights of citizens without being citizens. That's why we need to ensure that only people legally permitted to vote actually do.
Immigration is another subject completely and illegal immigration a different subject beyond that. Neither has anything do to with voter ID laws as being discussed here. AFAIK all states in this country understand and recognize that only certain citizens can vote and 49/50 states have voter (pre-)registration requirements where applicants are checked and those laws as well as residency laws are enforced. Photo ID laws do not enhance the voter registration process.
 
I cant vote because there inst enough background

Id support voter ID IF:
all current IDs are acceptable Drivers license, BC, Gun Permit, SS Card, military ID, passport etc
and after all those if there was a voter ID card available that was quick, easy, free and very easily accessible.
and then even if a person couldnt get access to something if when they go to vote all they have to do is verify some personal info and sign they voted and that would still be good enough.

then YES Id support it.

If its not that easy then no of course not because its going to infringe on peoples ability to vote.

ALSO since this stuff is going on right now, another reason I would currently be against it is because of the timing of its implementation? if the criteria above isnt met already then I think its wrong. Start it AFTER this election so it can hit the ground running.


so as a wrap up if its easy free and readily available and done in a timely manner go for it

if its bound to stop people from voting or have a right to then HELL NO of course not, I care about my fellow american even if I dont like them or agree with them
 
A voter registration card that is stamped upon voting is sufficient.

Republicans used to intensely oppose requiring government identity papers.
 
Tea Party being the "American Taliban". Ya know... I can't really argue against that. :neutral:


yup, he's got us. wanting to limit the realm of government and live within our means is exactly like pouring acid on little girls faces because they learned to read. Good catch, Captain America.
 
I would be in favor of it if it were mandatory to have ID for all Americans and if it was not used as a way to suppress the other guys vote. As those conditions have not been fulfilled at this time, I am going to say no for now.
 
And none of the new voter ID laws would stop that kind of abuse - assuming it's happening at all.

I didn't say that it would. I was replying to a poster who said this:
Is pretty hard in a place like this for there to be voter/election fraud, but I can easily see in large cities how it could happen

The only way the type of fraud I suspect is to expect honesty from postal workers, and whoever else may have access to mail-in ballots, and unfortunately, I don't expect honesty to happen with any regularity these days.
 
This is a silly debate, because one side of the debate simply does not CARE about the facts. We can post statistics of how many people lack a form of voter ID. We can post statistics of how incredibly rare/nonexistent voter impersonation is. And the other side still will not reply to these facts or offer any of their own...instead they'll just say "it's common sense" or "well why shouldn't we have voter ID," as though that was the same thing as actually refuting the points. Or worse yet, "people who don't have IDs are too stupid to vote." So really, I don't see the point in having this debate because no one will be swayed by the actual facts.

Voter ID laws are an unconscionable attack on our democracy itself, and anyone who supports these laws after knowing the facts should be ASHAMED of themselves. No short-term political gain is worth the cost to our democracy's credibility.
 
The purge was deliberate and should have been. It took over 175,000 people off the list that should have been removed. It also caught around 2000 people that shouldn't have been. That part was a mistake. Those people have been re-added. Are you honestly arguing that we should let 175,000 people who are ineligible to vote do so for fear of catching less than 2% error rate?

Seriously?
How many of those 175,000 people were voting at all? I understand that almost all of them had moved, died, etc. and almost none were voting illegally. So the 2% error rate that affected actual voters impacted more real people that the actual number of illegal voters that were stopped from voting. Please use read data and make valid equates when there are engineers reading.
 
ID should be required to vote IMHO. However, in some very rare cases I understand some eligible voters might not have a typical ID, a drivers license. Coincidentally I was speaking with my county Supervisor of Elections on this very matter recently. Here's what we require in my county.

Drivers license
State issued ID. Looks like a drivers license, issued by the DMV but is cheaper.
Student ID
Military ID
Passport
Visa Card
MasterCard
American Express Card
Discover Card
Any major department store credit card
Home Owners Association ID
Senior citizens community center ID
Government assistance ID card

If you have one of those that has BOTH your signature and photograph, you can vote. Alternately, if you have have two if one has your signature and the other has your photograph. You can also vote by mail with no ID provided you signature matches the signature on file at the elections office. The country buys the postage stamp both ways.
 
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Requiring voter ID is simply repression of a constitutional right that has been brought into the election process by the right for the purposes of control within a timeframe that will make difficult for everyone to get an ID before the election.

It's cheating.

According to SCOTUS there is no constitutional right to vote. That said since the effort has been going on since 2000, with varied success, there is no effort to institute it prior to this election. Even if a law were to pass a state tomorrow, it would still have to go through the pre-clearence process as per the Voting Rights Act. Therefore any current effort would affect, at the earliest the 2014 mid-term election. I think 2 years is plenty of time to get an ID for the 2014 election.

The Republicans tried a photo ID law here in 2007 (IIRC) and the State Supreme Court shot it down. How much thought do you suppose went into a law that gets shot down inside of 6 months? Obviously there was some zeal in getting it passed. They tried a second time in 2009 but it didn't pass because of a study done by our State Secretary about the number of people that would get left out. Considering our budget problems they're still working on that issue. In the end we'll likely end up with free State ID cards, which currently cost $30 for six years, but that amounts to ~$10M, which is a lot of money right now.

Define "here" Because it's not the US as a whole since there are several states that have the ID law. I also have to wonder about your claim as Indiana passed a law in 2005 that was challenged and didn't make it to the Supreme Court until 2008. I have to wonder how your law managed to bypass so much of the system.

I cant vote because there inst enough background

Id support voter ID IF:
all current IDs are acceptable Drivers license, BC, Gun Permit, SS Card, military ID, passport etc
and after all those if there was a voter ID card available that was quick, easy, free and very easily accessible.
and then even if a person couldnt get access to something if when they go to vote all they have to do is verify some personal info and sign they voted and that would still be good enough.

What is a BC as far as an ID? I'm not placing it at the moment. Also SS card says right on it not valid as an ID. Not sure of exact wording so I didn't quote it, but it says that none the less.

ALSO since this stuff is going on right now, another reason I would currently be against it is because of the timing of its implementation? if the criteria above isnt met already then I think its wrong. Start it AFTER this election so it can hit the ground running.

They've already been passing these laws since 2000. This is nothing new. It just gets a new surge every two year and a really big surge every 4. Plus any new law has to go through the pre-clearence as I noted before.
 
What is a BC as far as an ID? I'm not placing it at the moment. Also SS card says right on it not valid as an ID. Not sure of exact wording so I didn't quote it, but it says that none the less.

BC is birth certificate and my SS card does not say that, not to mention people still use it as a form in PA :shrug: at least every employer makes me bring it for copies along with my DL.

my card says:
This card belongs to the SS S and you must return it if we ask for it

Improper use is pinishble by fine and or impresionment

protect your car

sign card right away and keep safe

do not carry with you at all times


regardless though I would be fine with it being used lol its meaningless to my point



They've already been passing these laws since 2000. This is nothing new. It just gets a new surge every two year and a really big surge every 4. Plus any new law has to go through the per-clearence as I noted before.
nobody said its a new idea what I actually did say if its not easy and in place in a timely fashion im not for it, like starting it NOW and enforcing it for this election. SO again what you said or may have said in the past doesnt change my stance.

Im not sure what you are trying to state, agree with or argue against because nothing had an impact. WHat am I missing?
 
Define "here" Because it's not the US as a whole since there are several states that have the ID law. I also have to wonder about your claim as Indiana passed a law in 2005 that was challenged and didn't make it to the Supreme Court until 2008. I have to wonder how your law managed to bypass so much of the system.
Look at my screen name.
I didn't say SCOTUS, I said State Supreme Court.
 
BC is birth certificate and my SS card does not say that, not to mention people still use it as a form in PA :shrug: at least every employer makes me bring it for copies along with my DL.

my card says:
This card belongs to the SS S and you must return it if we ask for it

Improper use is pinishble by fine and or impresionment

protect your car

sign card right away and keep safe

do not carry with you at all times


regardless though I would be fine with it being used lol its meaningless to my point

Don't know why I couldn't come up with birth certificate. Must have been the late hour. As to the SS card, that has to be a relatively recent change because all the one's I have had in the past have had the not and ID wording on it. I'll now have to go dig mine out of the safe box and see.

I know what you meant with the bolded line, but damn that's funny. Like one of those non-sequester lines out of a joke or funny movie.


nobody said its a new idea what I actually did say if its not easy and in place in a timely fashion im not for it, like starting it NOW and enforcing it for this election. SO again what you said or may have said in the past doesnt change my stance.

Im not sure what you are trying to state, agree with or argue against because nothing had an impact. WHat am I missing?

Maybe it was the late hour again, but you and a couple of others imply, intentionally or not, that this seemed like a new thing.


Look at my screen name.
I didn't say SCOTUS, I said State Supreme Court.

Your screen name doesn't mean anything per se' except to identify you. Sorry but it's not obvious. For all I knew your name was Mo. I in fact have a friend with the name Mo.

And I do apologize as I did miss where you stated the State Supreme Court
 
Your screen name doesn't mean anything per se' except to identify you. Sorry but it's not obvious. For all I knew your name was Mo. I in fact have a friend with the name Mo.
My mistake, then, I thought "Moe" was a name, not "Mo". Too much Three Stooges when I was a kid I guess.
 
Don't know why I couldn't come up with birth certificate. Must have been the late hour. As to the SS card, that has to be a relatively recent change because all the one's I have had in the past have had the not and ID wording on it. I'll now have to go dig mine out of the safe box and see.


LOL hey no biggie, ive made my share of misreads, mispeaks and had brainfarts before too lol
Not to mentin my post was just king of a long way to say if its super easy and accessible with no real hindrance id be for it. lol

I know what you meant with the bolded line, but damn that's funny. Like one of those non-sequester lines out of a joke or funny movie.

LOL yep whoops, and thats a HUGE thing with me, Im a terrible typer and its usually because Im doning many things, rushing and my brain is way ahead of my fingers.





Maybe it was the late hour again, but you and a couple of others imply, intentionally or not, that this seemed like a new thing.

Yeah definitely not what I mean I cant speak fot the others though but If referred to new I didnt mean like BRAND NEW never tried I just mean like implemented so close to election in certain areas. I mean here in PA they mad the LAW new and a politician was on tape saying he thinks it will help the republicans for sure (he was a republican) so thats more like what I meant.

BUT on the otherside odfthat, I have ALWAYS been ask for my ID when I voted here, now I dodnt know what they did if you didnt have one but I was always asked. They always had a list, they went down it and I had to put my signature by it. :shrug:
 
There are additional means to prove who you are without providing an ID, however, when the IDs are cheap and relatively easy to get, I do not think it is undue harm to the citizenry. I do not agree with the mentality that selling IDs in of itself is a violation of our rights as citizens.

They are easy to get if you have all documentation in order to obtain one. I work in a field with adult with developmental disabilities and a lot of those folks come to us from state hospitals and often times, are missing vital documentation. Such as, original, certified copies of birth certificates. Problem is, you file to the state they were born in and they then require two forms of ID in order to even get a certified copy of a birth certificate. The problem then lies in the fact that they cannot obtain a KS ID card without a certified copy of a birth certificate. One lends to the other, and there you sit. Many of these people live in group homes and have representative payees, so all their expenses are paid by them. So, there are no bills or other forms of ID to send to the state to get an official ID.

Many of these people have no concerns with voting, but there are some that are extremely high functioning that have an interest and desire to vote. They cannot because of the lack of historical information about them that seems to go missing when they are transferred from hospital, institution, etc...
 
They are easy to get if you have all documentation in order to obtain one. I work in a field with adult with developmental disabilities and a lot of those folks come to us from state hospitals and often times, are missing vital documentation. Such as, original, certified copies of birth certificates. Problem is, you file to the state they were born in and they then require two forms of ID in order to even get a certified copy of a birth certificate. The problem then lies in the fact that they cannot obtain a KS ID card without a certified copy of a birth certificate. One lends to the other, and there you sit. Many of these people live in group homes and have representative payees, so all their expenses are paid by them. So, there are no bills or other forms of ID to send to the state to get an official ID.

Many of these people have no concerns with voting, but there are some that are extremely high functioning that have an interest and desire to vote. They cannot because of the lack of historical information about them that seems to go missing when they are transferred from hospital, institution, etc...

I remember well your occupation, TGND, and am well familiar with it. It is noble work, as my family have been grateful for services provided much like yours, and multiple members of my family have been long-time workers in the field. Again, thank you for your service, however stressful and perhaps ill to your health it can be (my Grandmother knows her limitations, but persists nevertheless).

I agree, IDs are troublesome to come by without the documentation necessary, or as our brothers and sisters on the physical disability categories could attest, difficult to make travel. It is why I personally think the Voter ID term that gave justification to the more restrictive laws itself is a misnomer, as there are additional means to provide identification without providing the State-issued card. It isn't as if without the State-ID cards everything is chaotic. On the contrary, we in North Dakota not only have no voter registration (the only such state in the Union), but we also allow numerous forms of identification to prove eligibility to vote. No voter scandals here. Instead, those with disabilities, often perhaps unsure where they need to vote, especially in times of redistricting (as was the case this Summer), were not denied access if they were in the wrong voting station-they could vote as any other. Should they not have the documentation necessary (including utility bill or change of address verification letter from the post office), they could follow the following advise: "If an individual offering to vote does not have or refuses to show an appropriate form of identification, the individual may be allowed to vote without being challenged if a pollworker is able to vouch for the voter's identity and address. Otherwise, the individual may vote as a challenged voter by executing an affidavit that the challenged individual is a legally qualified elector of the precinct." It certainly isn't a sure-fire way of ensuring it around here, but we have improved.

Though what is interesting to me is, like all other matters relating to disability, information is always power. As you say, guardians or payees represent middle-men that could withhold, forget, or be ignorant of what needs to be done in order to ensure civic participation. In addition to this, there is still the assumption that those with guardianship are too incompetent to move forward, or that they will be scammed, so deny them access. Certainly matters have improved since the 19th century where guardians held that much more power over those with, for instance intellectual disability, but a significant problem remains that many are still denied based on perceptions of cognitive fitness, or on basis of being appointed guardianship.
 
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