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Should we bomb Iran to prevent their getting nuclear weapons

Should we bomb Iran to prevent their getting nukes?

  • yes

    Votes: 9 18.8%
  • no

    Votes: 39 81.3%

  • Total voters
    48
  • Poll closed .
When observing the decline and fall of a nation, it is more revealing to find out what is not talked about, because the opinions publicly expressed should have led to solutions, not decline and fall. As America slowly spirals into chaos and impotence, no one with a professional public forum is immune from the decadent thinking enough to point out that the jihadist economic destruction has been entirely from OPEC, which has drained trillions of dollars out of our economy by colluding to impose a price for oil that is a hundred times what it is worth. Our continual cowardice in not treating the growing and vicious threat from OPEC as an enemy attack that must be answered by total victory has eaten away at our drive to reverse our collapsing national condition.

OPEC? Are you kidding me?

OPEC's mission is to keep the price in check and the supply stable.

Texas and North Sea crude are always higher.

The only reason that domestic production is strong is because the ppb remains high..
 
Okay, what would be your solution in today's world, at this point in time? Iran, Afghanistan, most of Africa, North Korea, Venezuela, Russia, China, some places in South America, the list goes on and on. If you think that we can simply just go to one country, fix it up, and move on to the next, that's not reality.
The American Global Nanny, neglecting her own kids in order to tend to the world's whining brats.
 
OPEC? Are you kidding me?

OPEC's mission is to keep the price in check and the supply stable.

Texas and North Sea crude are always higher.

The only reason that domestic production is strong is because the ppb remains high..

Workers in Texas and the North Sea get paid a hell of a lot more also. Not to mention, at least for Texas, all the government regulation. Texas geared up to hit the drilling, then Obama took office, now almost all of that pipe and equipment is lying around rusting.

While that may indeed have been OPECs original mission, price fixing is it's bread and butter now.
 
Workers in Texas and the North Sea get paid a hell of a lot more also. Not to mention, at least for Texas, all the government regulation. Texas geared up to hit the drilling, then Obama took office, now almost all of that pipe and equipment is lying around rusting.

While that may indeed have been OPECs original mission, price fixing is it's bread and butter now.

If the ppb weren't high.. they wouldn't be a 20 % increase in rigs ... and there would be NO investment in exploration and drilling.

Its NOT altruism.. its business.

Do you remember the boom and bust in Texas in 85-86?

Papa Bush begged the Saudis to raise the ppb.
 
When observing the decline and fall of a nation, it is more revealing to find out what is not talked about, because the opinions publicly expressed should have led to solutions, not decline and fall. As America slowly spirals into chaos and impotence, no one with a professional public forum is immune from the decadent thinking enough to point out that the jihadist economic destruction has been entirely from OPEC, which has drained trillions of dollars out of our economy by colluding to impose a price for oil that is a hundred times what it is worth. Our continual cowardice in not treating the growing and vicious threat from OPEC as an enemy attack that must be answered by total victory has eaten away at our drive to reverse our collapsing national condition.

We really have no one to blame but ourselves. The EPA doesn't allow vehicles to maximize fuel efficiency, we way over use, we have less efficient more oil based distribution systems for our products moved around the country, many things.

It all started after WWII. The Germans were defeated, in part, because they ran out of fuel. So our strategic planners decided that would be a bad thing for us if we ever got into it with the Russians. Instead, we would import our fuel and save our own for that emergency if it ever comes. Then in the 1970s, along comes the EPA and puts the smack down on the industry and the oil companies say, "hey, WTF over. Screw this, we can get it cheaper over there and not have to put up with this kind of crap." And bye, bye the went. To make sure we got oil as long as we could, we decided to make buddy buddy with those guys over in the Middle East and we could put some people over there to keep those Ruskies in place. Man did we ever make some really bad choices in the Cold War.

So now we only produce about 38% of our own oil, although only around 13% actually comes from the Persian Gulf now. If we suddenly went to electric rail for cargo instead of diesel-electric we could shave off that 13% in no time. Oh, wait, we can't do that because the greenie-weenies won't let us build enough power plants to support it. They don't want coal, they don't want Nuclear and they have given us jack else for a viable option yet, but hey, burning all that oil isn't really all that bad for us.
 
That theory just might hold water if we actually had any hegemony in the region to begin with. Also, I pretty sure that Bush probably wouldn't even know what it means, much less how to employ it. No, he was fed up with terrorist and he wanted them gone. The same countries participating in state sponsored terrorism haven't changed in awhile. Wasn't real hard to come up with a list.

Syria was perhaps the most active of them at the time of Iraqi Freedom
Lebanon right behind them, but then, current gov there is pretty much an extension of Syria.
Iran would be the next active.
Libya was not very active at all, a little
Somalia, hard to take down a government that doesn't exists.
Sudan, yeah, should of been higher on the list.

The correct order should of been Iran, Syria, Sudan, Iraq, Libya, Lebanon (assuming taking out Syria didn't actually change things there first) and Somalia last. Maybe his priorities on which to do when was a bit screwed up, but cannot say that taking out any of them at the time would actually of been "wrong". That time line actually only works if all we do is invade and then pull out without any reconstruction. Rather a poor plan if that is what they actually thought we could do.

I also find it strange that he brings up the Al Queda link to Iraq. As a General that high up, he should of known what the Administrations policies/stance were. As pointed out, it was never Al Queda only, but any state sponsor of terrorism.
Without oil, terrorist jihadists would be fighting us with sticks and stones

Take their oil. Take back the oil. Without us, the desert rats would never have developed any oil industry on their own. Our giveaway foreign policy has come back to haunt us.
 
If the ppb weren't high.. they wouldn't be a 20 % increase in rigs ... and there would be NO investment in exploration and drilling.

Its NOT altruism.. its business.

Do you remember the boom and bust in Texas in 85-86?

Papa Bush begged the Saudis to raise the ppb.

Uh, that was more than 25 years ago, not now. BTW, Reagan was Pres in 85-56, not Bush. G. H. Bush was elected in '88 and took office in '89.
 
Actually I won't really ever collect Social Security. Since I have a government retirement, it is reduced by the amount that Social Security pays. To them it looks like I am getting paid it, to me it is transparent.

And yes, I am saying that welfare is part of the cause. Normal human behavior (in modern society) is to work at a job get paid to support yourself. Welfare allows people to not work, but still get paid to support themselves. In any society were you allow people receive pay without labor but require labor for others to earn their pay, the system will eventually fail, always. The correct and proper way would be for people who need government assistance, welfare, to have to also perform some labor to receive it. Otherwise, in system like ours, you start teaching people that they do not have to perform labor but can get paid anyways, a number of them will choose to perform no labor at all. As taxes and other factors needed to support those not performing labor increase, the number needing assistance will increase and eventually you run out of money for the system. Also, your bottom tier, undesirable labor will start having shortages being filled. This is evident today in some jobs already. Further, the children raised by parents who do not work but get paid by the government only learn to depend on the government and never learn good job habits, then they end up on the system themselves. It is not uncommon today to find families who are now on their 3-4th generation that has been on welfare. To make matters worse, we not only do not require labor to receive pay, but we increase pay if they have children. There are many, many welfare children who were born only so their mothers could get a larger check. These children are generally raised without discipline, without love and their parents don't care about their education or training. These are also the children that cause major disruptions in the education system. While Poverty does in general raise crime rates, we have a disproportionate amount of crime compared to our poverty. When you combine poverty with the lack of parental guidance and poor examples of fitting into society, then we get the gangs and the major crime problems we see in our inner cities. There are impoverished nations throughout the world that do not have our level of crime, gang violence and teen pregnancy rates. They also do not have our welfare system.
So why fund foreign parasites instead? Those nations also refuse to work their way out of poverty, unless it is by piracy. Those nations won't fight for their own freedom, which I personally witnessed in South Vietnam. Your selective criticism glorifies these foreign poverty pimps, which makes your interventionism absurd. As usual, ideologies are hypocritical and inconsistent. My heart doesn't bleed for whining and gutless foreign trash. All this foreign aid and intervention has just made them greedier for our sacrifice to solve the problems they brought upon themselves and justifiably deserve as punishment for their own unfitness.
 
So, you don't want us to do it but it's ok if isreal does?

I was talking about both the US and Israel reducing our nuclear stockpiles.



You know what, wag your finger after they launch a nuke.

I am at a loss to explain where such irrational fear comes from in a country with the most powerful military on the planet.
 
When observing the decline and fall of a nation, it is more revealing to find out what is not talked about, because the opinions publicly expressed should have led to solutions, not decline and fall. As America slowly spirals into chaos and impotence, no one with a professional public forum is immune from the decadent thinking enough to point out that the jihadist economic destruction has been entirely from OPEC, which has drained trillions of dollars out of our economy by colluding to impose a price for oil that is a hundred times what it is worth. Our continual cowardice in not treating the growing and vicious threat from OPEC as an enemy attack that must be answered by total victory has eaten away at our drive to reverse our collapsing national condition.


Not a believer in property rights? You know, we have only had since 1971, when we passed peak oil in this country to become more efficient with our energy use and develop alternatives to oil? After sitting on our ass for 40 years its a bit unseemly to be blaming OPEC now.
 
Uh, that was more than 25 years ago, not now. BTW, Reagan was Pres in 85-56, not Bush. G. H. Bush was elected in '88 and took office in '89.

Your dates are accurate and Papa Bush was the one who went to KSA and begged them to raise the ppb in 1986.. He was not president at that time..
 
Not a believer in property rights? You know, we have only had since 1971, when we passed peak oil in this country to become more efficient with our energy use and develop alternatives to oil? After sitting on our ass for 40 years its a bit unseemly to be blaming OPEC now.

Funny how people who know nothing about the oil business yap about OPEC.
 
Without oil, terrorist jihadists would be fighting us with sticks and stones

Take their oil. Take back the oil. Without us, the desert rats would never have developed any oil industry on their own. Our giveaway foreign policy has come back to haunt us.

That has got to be the silliest remark I have seen today.

You never had any "give-away foreign policy" in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Libya, Iran or Iraq..

That was accomplished by PRIVATE citizens.
 
I was talking about both the US and Israel reducing our nuclear stockpiles.

Well, that sounds cool. Think you can get Iran onboard?

I am at a loss to explain where such irrational fear comes from in a country with the most powerful military on the planet.

How many people do you think one Nuke would kill if it hit, say, Manhattan?
 
Well, that sounds cool. Think you can get Iran onboard?

If the US, Korea, and Israel doesn't live up to the NPT, why should Iran?



How many people do you think one Nuke would kill if it hit, say, Manhattan?


Iran has never acted suicidal in the past, so I don't go imagining they will in the future. The US is in fact the only country in the world to have used nuclear weapons on civilian populations.
 
If the US, Korea, and Israel doesn't live up to the NPT, why should Iran?

Can't we just have one conspiracy free discussion, Cat?
NPT Compliance | National Nuclear Security Administration

Iran has never acted suicidal in the past, so I don't go imagining they will in the future. The US is in fact the only country in the world to have used nuclear weapons on civilian populations.

Iran has openly threatened the destruction of the Israeli state. Israel is a US ally and Iran knows that we will respond if they ever try to make good on that. That alone is definitely suicidal.
 
Can't we just have one conspiracy free discussion, Cat?
NPT Compliance | National Nuclear Security Administration


Who said anything about conspiracy. We were discussing the lack of motivation for Iran to do what the US, Israel, and Korea have not done.

The do as I say, not as I do, approach does not appear to be working.



Iran has openly threatened the destruction of the Israeli state. Israel is a US ally and Iran knows that we will respond if they ever try to make good on that. That alone is definitely suicidal.

And Saddam waved his shotgun in the air. Some wet their pants over that and got us involved in an almost decade long unnecessary war. That's what happens when people start jumping at shadows.
 
Who said anything about conspiracy. We were discussing the lack of motivation for Iran to do what the US, Israel, and Korea have not done.

The do as I say, not as I do, approach does not appear to be working.

The US is complying, so I don't see what your point is if not more conspiracy theory.

And Saddam waved his shotgun in the air. Some wet their pants over that and got us involved in an almost decade long unnecessary war. That's what happens when people start jumping at shadows.

Oh, right. I forgot....you think only the US is dangerous and aggressive. :roll:
 
The US is complying, so I don't see what your point is if not more conspiracy theory.

Ha! We still have thousands of nuclear weapons, Israel has hundreds and Iran has none. That's the fact Jack.



Oh, right. I forgot....you think only the US is dangerous and aggressive. :roll:

The US spends almost as much on military as the rest of the world combined, and still some conservatives are askeered.
 
Ha! We still have thousands of nuclear weapons, Israel has hundreds and Iran has none. That's the fact Jack.

That doesn't mean we aren't complying.

The US spends almost as much on military as the rest of the world combined, and still some conservatives are askeered.

Yeah, too much. But we spend less as a percentage of GDP than more than a few countries. Regardless....it's irrelevant to Iran's public statement of foreign policy. You know, the destruction of Israel?
 
Heres who some are askeered -

defense_spending_intl3.png
 
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