View Poll Results: Is it a racist remark?

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Thread: The Food Stamp President

  1. #171
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    Re: The Food Stamp President

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Porch Monkey: a derogatory way of describing an person of African decent.

    A derogatory for a person of african or african american decent. BUT it could also mean a generally lazy person. This term came to be when you think of african americans sitting on there porch chatting it up.

    Someone without a job that sits on their porch all day drink'n 40's, and trading food stamps for crack.

    A person, of African descent, usually found in the Southern states of the United States. Porch Monkeys were commonly found sitting on their porches doing little or nothing all day. Usually found on Plantations or large land lots with a house/shack of some sort including a porch. An Alabama Porch Monkey

    Urban Dictionary: porch monkey


    Since your a good ol southern boy, cpwill, do southerners associate "porch monkey's" with welfare and foodstamps? According that definition above, it sure looks they do.
    No, the older ones associate "porch monkey" with blacks, and the younger ones associate "porch monkey" with Clerks II. If there is a secondary association of "porch monkey" with "welfare/foodstamps" then it is no stronger than the same association with those two programs and people who are "white trash".

  2. #172
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    Re: The Food Stamp President

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Tell that to the GOP since they're the ones using blacks as scapegoats to get your vote.
    no they're not, and they wouldn't get our vote if they did.

  3. #173
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    Re: The Food Stamp President

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No, the older ones associate "porch monkey" with blacks, and the younger ones associate "porch monkey" with Clerks II. If there is a secondary association of "porch monkey" with "welfare/foodstamps" then it is no stronger than the same association with those two programs and people who are "white trash".
    Don't you mean the "tea party?"

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no they're not, and they wouldn't get our vote if they did.
    What do you mean "our" vote? Are you trying to say that you have more than one vote at the ballot box?

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    Re: The Food Stamp President

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Well why don't Democrats just do it to white males too, and win every election with 95% of the vote?
    gotta run to work - but you can't both run by telling blacks that evil white men are out to "put them back in chains" and run by telling whites that evil blacks are out to, I don't know, do whatever evil blacks would do.

    Why do you suppose some groups are more susceptible to this kind of brainwashing than others?
    I don't know, you would have to ask the african american spokesmen and women who have described it. But if I had to hazard a guess I would propose that the atrocious public school system that we doom a larger percentage of our african american populace to has something to do with it, as does our push decades ago to get a larger percentage of the african american populace on public assistance. people on the dole will vote for the party of the dole.

    I really have no idea what the pick up truck comment was about; I almost never watch Keith Olbermann as I find him incredibly obnoxious. Is he even still on the air?
    He does some kind of internet-stream, I think. He got kicked off of Al Gore's network apparently for being too much of a drama queen.

    If it's just a matter of crying wolf, then Republicans would be doing better than 5% among black voters.
    not really. like older people being more susceptible to mediscare, african americans are more susceptible to blaming the ills of the world on racism.

    Some of them would see through the ruse, just like any other voting bloc.
    yes. they are generally called "oreos", "house n-----rs", "aunt jemima's", and all other sorts of pleasant names. there is an incredibly self-destructive set of social pressures at play within the African American community - from the above mentioned to the notion that "education is a white thing" and that having baby-mama's makes you more of a man.

    A few key differences between Democrats doing poorly among senior white males, and Republicans doing poorly among blacks:

    1) Democrats don't really do THAT poorly among senior white males. I don't know if any exit polls get that specific, but I'd bet they still get 30-40% of that vote. Far more than the 0-5% of the black vote Republicans receive.
    So 30-40%, much like the 5%, still fail to see that the Democrats hate them because that's how sneaky Democrats are. You manage to keep your hatred of the elderly quiet, you use dog-whistles that only other ageists can hear.


    (In a non-falsifiable thesis such as the one you have proposed, absence of evidence is corroboration, as is evidence of absence.)

    2) Democrats have plenty of senior white males among their ranks; probably at least half of Democratic senators fall into that category.
    and Republicans have plenty of minorities in their ranks as well. Democrat "tokens" and "self-hating older white men" don't excuse their bias.

    3) Democrats talk about issues that senior white males actually care about (e.g. Medicare, social security).
    yes, and Republicans talk about education reform, which black voters actually (deeply) care about, and traditional marriage, which black voters overwhelmingly support.

    4) Democrats don't regularly use coded language specifically to malign senior white males, then continue doing it after they get called on it.
    that is because the coded language exists only in your imagination.

    however, I can play this game too: whenever Demcorats talk about the great things that obamacare is going to do for us, they are talking about the IPAB (ie: the Death Panel) finally getting rid of older voters who do not support their party. When they talk about finding "efficiencies" in Medicare, this is a dog-whistle to the other ageists out there; it gets them all riled up, and fires up the Democrat base, which secretly hates the elderly, but can't come out and openly say it.

    I'm saying that the fact that blacks perceive these debates as racially charged, combined with the Republican insistence on continuing the same line of attack ANYWAY, combined with the electoral results of overwhelming black disaffection with the Republican Party, points to that conclusion.
    no, it doesn't. firstly, for this debate, you had shelby steele (who is black) telling chris matthews (who is white) that he was nuts because the white guy was choosing to try to make a story about racism. To the extent that blacks do see this debate as racially charged it is because of people like Matthews and yourself who have a vested interest in ensuring that they do.

    I'm not familiar with Herman Cain's comments. But if he's going on about black people being brainwashed, then yes, that's absolutely racist, as it calls into question the intelligence or critical thinking abilities of an entire race of people.
    not really - intelligent people can be brainwashed as well. nor does it call into question someones' genetic ability; not when we are sending african american kids to the schools that we do. but the idea that herman caine is as racist against black people is ridiculous as the notion that I am racist against white 30 year olds.

    It's a neat (although not terribly subtle) line of attack. Any minority who breaks from the democrat line must be evil to the extent that they do so.

    Perhaps it's because the Republicans don't bother to talk to black voters about their views on social issues or education reform. Instead, they want to talk about the "food stamp president" and enact odious voter ID laws
    we talk about the food stamp president to the population at large, and (wait for it) much like the rest of the nation, a large majority of african americans support voter ID laws.

    This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what racism is. It's not necessarily an outright hatred of black people. There is nothing inconsistent at all about being racist and defending a black person's comments, or even voting for a black person. There are plenty of racist Democrats who peddle the "I'm not racist because I voted for Obama" crap, which is just the newest variant on "I'm not racist because I have a black friend." This is especially true if the person has reason to see the black politician as an EXCEPTION to the stereotypes of his race.
    what, you mean like for example if he thought that finally a nice, clean black guy had come along who spoke with no negro dialect unless he wanted to?

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    Re: The Food Stamp President

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Don't you mean the "tea party?"
    no, I mean the term "white trash", which is equally linked (and more heavily prevalent) to welfare, food stamps, the dole, etc.

    the "Tea Party" was disproportionately made up of people with higher education levels, higher incomes, and small business owners.

    What do you mean "our" vote? Are you trying to say that you have more than one vote at the ballot box?
    southern white males.

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    Re: The Food Stamp President

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Same here. Until there is a verified source anyone could have done this. There are public relations advantages for Mia Love no matter who did it so I am of the mind to wait and see. I never heard of this woman before this situation now I know who she is.
    It just gets curiouser and curiouser that the same conservative blogger who broke the story this morning also did an interview with Mia Love back in March 2012 before anyone outside of Utah county had even heard of her. Yesterday, Mia gave a speech at the RNC convention in the afternoon and then soon after went on FoxNews and raised about 17K and then just when it looks like the donations are going to peter out.....the racist slur goes up on Wiki that night and then suddenly by morning Mia Love is getting more donations than she did the day of her speech or appearing FoxNews.

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    Re: The Food Stamp President

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    no, I mean the term "white trash", which is equally linked (and more heavily prevalent) to welfare, food stamps, the dole, etc.
    Then prove it. I showed you mine, now lets see yours that southerners equate "white trash" to welfare and food stamps more than they do blacks.

    the "Tea Party" was disproportionately made up of people with higher education levels, higher incomes, and small business owners.
    It sure doesn't show at their rallies or on their websites. In fact, most of the tea partiers look like they just rolled off a jelly roll wagon and are on Social Security, Medicare or....welfare and foodstamps.

    southern white males.
    Nice try, but you dont speak for anyone but yourself.

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    Re: The Food Stamp President

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Yeah, put those lazy starving children out on the street to beg for their food. That'll teach em.
    How much financial assistance do you give to those you think are entitled to welfare?

    Or do you just expect others to foot the bill?
    Last edited by Μολὼν λαβέ; 08-29-12 at 08:21 PM.
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    Re: The Food Stamp President

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    gotta run to work - but you can't both run by telling blacks that evil white men are out to "put them back in chains" and run by telling whites that evil blacks are out to, I don't know, do whatever evil blacks would do.
    Well why don't they just use some OTHER Jedi mind trick to brainwash the white voters then? If the Jedi mind tricks have been so effective on black voters that they routinely get 95% of the vote, surely they'd be able to find one that works on white voters at least, say, 60% of the time. No?

    I don't know, you would have to ask the african american spokesmen and women who have described it. But if I had to hazard a guess I would propose that the atrocious public school system that we doom a larger percentage of our african american populace to has something to do with it, as does our push decades ago to get a larger percentage of the african american populace on public assistance. people on the dole will vote for the party of the dole.
    But black voters vote Democrat to a much greater extent than white voters at every level of the income and educational ladder. Not just poor people in failing schools on welfare.

    not really. like older people being more susceptible to mediscare, african americans are more susceptible to blaming the ills of the world on racism.
    Except the elderly split their votes roughly 50-50...in fact, they may even be trending slightly Republican. So why have at least some of the old voters been able to see through the Democrats' Jedi mind tricks, but almost none of the black voters have?

    yes. they are generally called "oreos", "house n-----rs", "aunt jemima's", and all other sorts of pleasant names.
    Although this is somewhat true and it is offensive, it doesn't answer the basic question. Why do those labels exist in the first place, and why have they had such an impact on the political cohesion of black voters? No other race or major voting bloc votes with margins like 95-5.

    So 30-40%, much like the 5%, still fail to see that the Democrats hate them because that's how sneaky Democrats are. You manage to keep your hatred of the elderly quiet, you use dog-whistles that only other ageists can hear.
    If there was a large contingent of elderly people actually making this claim, I'd probably take it a bit more seriously. As would Democratic politicians. I highly doubt they'd tell the elderly voters "**** you, nothing we said was offensive, it's all in your imagination." Which is essentially the Republican response to complaints from black voters about their racially charged rhetoric.

    and Republicans have plenty of minorities in their ranks as well. Democrat "tokens" and "self-hating older white men" don't excuse their bias.
    This is simply not the case. White male seniors not only account for a substantial number of Democratic politicians, they account for more than what their demographics would suggest. Whereas I can count the number of prominent black Republicans on one hand, and a couple of those people are well known ONLY because they are black Republicans (e.g. Herman Cain). But I guess when you're only working with 5% of the black voting population from which to draw your candidates, the talent pool is quite a bit smaller than on the other side of the aisle.

    yes, and Republicans talk about education reform, which black voters actually (deeply) care about, and traditional marriage, which black voters overwhelmingly support.
    They RARELY talk about education reform in any context, and they usually only talk about anti-gay policies around other white people. It's rare for a Republican politician to make a serious play for the black vote by talking about these (or any other) issues. If they DID talk about those things by seriously engaging black voters, and if they toned down their nasty rhetoric on other issues, then I think that they WOULD do quite a bit better among black voters.

    that is because the coded language exists only in your imagination.

    however, I can play this game too: whenever Demcorats talk about the great things that obamacare is going to do for us, they are talking about the IPAB (ie: the Death Panel) finally getting rid of older voters who do not support their party. When they talk about finding "efficiencies" in Medicare, this is a dog-whistle to the other ageists out there; it gets them all riled up, and fires up the Democrat base, which secretly hates the elderly, but can't come out and openly say it.
    Here's the thing: With Republicans using racist dog whistles, it's NOT just in my imagination. Lots of other people have come to the same conclusion, including lots of members of the affected minority group (i.e. blacks). And when Republicans are called on it, they don't stop doing it. Whereas your alleged Democratic slight against white-male-senior voters does not seem to be on the minds of actual white male seniors. And if it was, the Democrats would almost certainly listen to their concerns and stop whatever rhetoric they found offensive, if for no other reason than they wouldn't want to lose their votes.

    no, it doesn't. firstly, for this debate, you had shelby steele (who is black) telling chris matthews (who is white) that he was nuts because the white guy was choosing to try to make a story about racism.
    I don't know anything about this exchange...I don't know who Shelby Steele is, and I find Chris Matthews quite annoying. But in any case, the race of the two individuals is irrelevant to the national issue of racism. Which of them was more accurately representing the view of a large majority of the African-American community?

    To the extent that blacks do see this debate as racially charged it is because of people like Matthews and yourself who have a vested interest in ensuring that they do.
    No, you have it completely backwards. People like myself (or I assume Chris Matthews) have no stake of our own in this. *I* am not the one who Republicans are attacking with these views. Many members of the black community have shared their concerns about racial overtones in various subjects. Republican politicians know perfectly well that those concerns exist, and yet make no effort whatsoever to change the way they talk about those subjects. This shows that 1) it's not just an isolated, innocuous mistake, and 2) they don't have much respect for the opinions of black voters.

    not really - intelligent people can be brainwashed as well. nor does it call into question someones' genetic ability; not when we are sending african american kids to the schools that we do. but the idea that herman caine is as racist against black people is ridiculous as the notion that I am racist against white 30 year olds.
    This is not true at all. If a person associates a negative stereotype with a certain race, then they are being racist. It doesn't matter whether that race is their own or a different race. (Another example: Both black and white police officers are more likely to pull over black drivers for the same infraction in the same neighborhood.) In Herman Cain's case - as with many other Republican politicians - it isn't necessarily that they are racist themselves. They may just be pandering to racist voters, which is hardly a big improvement.

    we talk about the food stamp president to the population at large,
    The point is that Republicans want to talk about this kind of garbage, which they KNOW that many black voters find offensive, rather than issues that might actually appeal to them like school choice.

    That is sad, but I guess it shouldn't be particularly surprising. I guess it's just too new of a political issue for voters to have really understood what it does.

    what, you mean like for example if he thought that finally a nice, clean black guy had come along who spoke with no negro dialect unless he wanted to?
    Exactly. There are plenty of racist Democrats too. Another more subtle example was how the media fawned in 2008 about how Obama "transcended race." I think this was intended as a compliment, but it just highlights the fact that many racists can vote for a black candidate specifically BECAUSE they don't think that negative stereotypes about the candidate's race apply to him.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-29-12 at 08:46 PM.
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    Re: The Food Stamp President

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That is sad, but I guess it shouldn't be particularly surprising. I guess it's just too new of a political issue for voters to have really understood what it does.
    Pretty much the case, as there isn't any criterion -- race, age, income, plan to vote -- where there is much if any variation across the scale. People in general apparently remain in the dark.

    In practical terms, voter-ID laws are a solution in search of a problem. There is very little actual voter fraud anywhere in the US, but where there is any, it comes almost exclusively from absentee ballot tampering and other forms of illegality committed by crooked election officials. Voter-ID laws do nothing about that at all. The only form of voter fraud that ID laws can have any impact on is voter impersonation fraud, which simply put, is not even close to being a problem. Review of all known allegations of voter fraud raised since 2000 found 10 in which there was even an allegation of voter impersonation fraud.

    Why the big push for voter-ID laws then? Their impacts fall most heavily on low-income voters. Those tend to vote Democratic. That's why Republicans went after ACORN and that's why they push voter-ID laws when there is no actual reason to. They want to keep as many low-income voters away from the polls as they possibly can. That's really all there is to it.

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