View Poll Results: Is the US a benefit to the World?

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60. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, absolutely. The world will kill itself without us.

    11 18.33%
  • Yes, I believe so. I think we do more good than harm.

    30 50.00%
  • Not sure.

    8 13.33%
  • No, I don’t believe so. I think we do more harm than good.

    10 16.67%
  • No, absolutely not. The world will kill us if we don’t get out of its way.

    1 1.67%
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Thread: Is the United States a benefit to the World?

  1. #41
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    Re: Is the United States a benefit to the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    If you don't mind me asking, what religion are you?
    I'm a deist. Why do you ask?
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  2. #42
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    Re: Is the United States a benefit to the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    I'm a deist.
    Deist is not a religion, but a brand of theism. Claiming that ones God has walked away doesn't really change anything. Thanks for the answer.

  3. #43
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    Re: Is the United States a benefit to the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    The question, as I understood it, had to do with America's influence on people beyond our own borders. I get everything you're saying, but I'm confidant we'll sort all of that out in time. America isn't perfect, just close to perfect. I bet if you open up an almanac and look for the time you were without ambiguity persuaded America was doing things in a way in which you approved, I'm willing to bet there were things going on here that were far worse than things you take exception to today.
    Bet lost. There is nothing that I take greater exception to than socialism. Ok, maybe I would take exception to being tortured to death over a long period of time, but really, given a choice between that and socialism as the only available options, I would probably strap myself to the rack.

  4. #44
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    Re: Is the United States a benefit to the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Bet lost. There is nothing that I take greater exception to than socialism. Ok, maybe I would take exception to being tortured to death over a long period of time, but really, given a choice between that and socialism as the only available options, I would probably strap myself to the rack.
    You're a gutsy felow. Okay, lets prove it. Pick any 4 year period in American history so I can get specific and ask you if you think things that were going on then were better than the policies of the Obama administration. Not saying you're wrong. I just suspect you and many like you are so caught up in the political emotionalism of the day they you might be getting selective amnesia.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  5. #45
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    Re: Is the United States a benefit to the World?

    I suppose your example was humorous.

    However, it is a good example. How does this link form. Do you run an ad saying I have 1000 bananas and I'd like to trade for wine?

    Every transaction requires a frame of reference. The bananas and the wine may yet be the result but without a reliable currency, the whole world would be operating like a flea market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    OK, let's imagine that Columbia trades bananas for wine with Argentina. Tell me one reason why they should use US dollars, please.

  6. #46
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    Re: Is the United States a benefit to the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    You're a gutsy felow. Okay, lets prove it. Pick any 4 year period in American history so I can get specific and ask you if you think things that were going on then were better than the policies of the Obama administration. Not saying you're wrong. I just suspect you and many like you are so caught up in the political emotionalism of the day they you might be getting selective amnesia.
    Not really, but hey. Cold War era had it's points, unfortunately came after the Great Depression and Kennedy and the great communism in America social revolution took place during that era. The era of Western Expansion. I am not really sure of what you are refering to Era's, but with the exception of the New Deal business, anything prior to Kennedy would be better than to day, we have been on a constant downhill slide since then.

  7. #47
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    Re: Is the United States a benefit to the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Not really, but hey. Cold War era had it's points, unfortunately came after the Great Depression and Kennedy and the great communism in America social revolution took place during that era. The era of Western Expansion. I am not really sure of what you are refering to Era's, but with the exception of the New Deal business, anything prior to Kennedy would be better than to day, we have been on a constant downhill slide since then.
    Okay, I agree those were amazing times in American history, the stuff of goosebumps. The western expansion, the advent of the automobile, a lot of really cool stuff. However, at the same time all of that was going on black people were being strung up on trees and mob lynched often with the complicity of municipal law enforcement. It is estimated that the total number lynched from post civil war to the assasination of Martin Luther King doubled the number killed on 9/11. During the dust bowl of the 1940s over 2 million people were left homeless and over 7 thousand staved to death due to that partial man made disaster. Not to mention the fate of our Native Americans. With all due respect and no offense intended, I have a hard time thinking any of that is better than the Affordable Health Care for Americans Act, which everybody including Obama realized it will be modified and tweaked over time or the Frank Dodd Banking Bill that stopped banks from approving debt card charges when they knew you didn't have enough funds in your account to cover it but didnt realize it just so they could send you to the cleaners with NSF fees or any of the so-called socialist policies of President Obama unless you eat right-wing pundit demonization from breakfast lunch and dinner.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  8. #48
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    Re: Is the United States a benefit to the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Okay, I agree those were amazing times in American history, the stuff of goosebumps. The western expansion, the advent of the automobile, a lot of really cool stuff. However, at the same time all of that was going on black people were being strung up on trees and mob lynched often with the complicity of municipal law enforcement. It is estimated that the total number lynched from post civil war to the assasination of Martin Luther King doubled the number killed on 9/11. During the dust bowl of the 1940s over 2 million people were left homeless and over 7 thousand staved to death due to that partial man made disaster. Not to mention the fate of our Native Americans. With all due respect and no offense intended, I have a hard time thinking any of that is better than the Affordable Health Care for Americans Act, which everybody including Obama realized it will be modified and tweaked over time or the Frank Dodd Banking Bill that stopped banks from approving debt card charges when they knew you didn't have enough funds in your account to cover it but didnt realize it just so they could send you to the cleaners with NSF fees or any of the so-called socialist policies of President Obama unless you eat right-wing pundit demonization from breakfast lunch and dinner.
    Obama is detrimental to a far larger number of people. Socialism always is. Dodd Frank and Obama care is far more damaging to far more people. By the traitor, Justice Roberts. The most damaging part of the bill was not the individual mandate but allowing the government to step in and actually limit profits and dictate corporate spending. The longterm human affects of those actions are going to be a lot worse than what you have mentioned. Add in Dodd-Frank, if it is upheld, then the government is cleared to totally implement a socialist agenda. How many people have socialist killed during that same time period you mention? The number lynched in the US is not even a significant portion of a single percentile of the deaths associated with socialism. The dust bowl, sure bad deal, but 2 milllion homeless, 7 thousand starving to death, not even a busy day for Linnen, Stalin, Mau, Minh, etc. Hell, not even a significant percentage of Americans at the time either. How many died fighting Adolf Hitlers National Socialist (Nazi's) in Germany? Since the first attempt to implement socialism, how many have become homeless and starved to death as a result of attempts to implement such policies? Was Slavery a bad deal for those under it, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of them would of been killed or never existed had slavery not existed. By far, most slaves were sold to Europeans by Africans who captured them in tribal warfare, prior to selling them to Europeans, they were simply killed or enslaved in Africa. Genocide is not anything new in Africa, only the lack of it would actually be a change in their history.

    The Native Americans, well, they got their asses royally kicked because they practiced a form of socialism and never progressed above early stone age and couldn't compete with far superior technology and methods, thus, in the natural order of things, they faded into history. Further, after the US was formed, they stupidly started wars against it and got their butts kicked. No claims to "Indian" terreritory ever derived from the US, the US purchased or got those claims from other countries. They set a really good example, never let your military capabilities and technological advancement fall to such a weak level, someone stronger will come along, kick your ass and take what you thought was yours. The native American wars should of been against European and other powers, not the US.

    Their is no significant difference in how bad a particular act was, but there is a major difference in the scope. Getting lynched in the US was probably a lot better for the individual than ending up in the Gulag in Russia.

    PS. One of the greatest things about the Cold War era was that we got to train for, plan for, practice for and even sometimes we got to kill socialist. There is no greater enemy to mankind than socialism.
    Last edited by DVSentinel; 08-27-12 at 10:34 PM.

  9. #49
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    Re: Is the United States a benefit to the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    This isn't true. If China wasn't confident in the US dollar, why would it be confident in T-bonds? If they felt it wasn't actually worth anything, it would just be throwing good money after bad. They don't buy enough to prop up the value. And in any case, why would they continue to make the problem worse by accepting US dollars for goods, if they weren't confident in the US dollar?

    The financial markets are quite confident in the dollar. We are paying record low interest rates on T-bonds.
    Treasury bonds are loans from the country purchasing them. We owe 15+trillion and another 50-60 trillion in long term liabilities. We are not a creditworthy country anymore than Greece or Ireland or Spain. When foreign countries don't buy bonds (make us a loan), then the Federal Reserve, a private central bank, makes the loan. This amounts to just printing mo' money, as they say. China, Japan, and India can see we are a third world debtor Nation, but, as I previously stated, if they don't loan us the money, we go bankrupt and they are stuck with worthless US paper. If they do loan us the money, at least the US Paper that they are stuck with maintains its' value. The US Dollar is "full faith and credit," and that is that confidence that you keep repeating. Only a fool country would upset the apple cart, but it is not about a "sound" US Currency. The Federal Reserve that issues the currency is a Private Central Bank, so when push comes to bankruptcy the US will say the no-good money is the Federal Reserves and the Federal Reserve will be required to shoulder the blame while the US as a Nation will issue a US currency and claim disassociation with the Federal Reserve. There is an overabundance of US Currency because all Nations are required to pay for OIL with US Currency, as per our Agreement with Saudi Arabia that all OIL will be traded in USDollars and the US will provide a military umbrella for Saudi Arabia. That is a treaty agreement from around 1972. Fact. Every dollar of a country's currency is a loan that is paid when it comes back to the host Nation and purchases OIL, silver, gold, real estate, timber, etc.

  10. #50
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    Re: Is the United States a benefit to the World?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Obama is detrimental to a far larger number of people. Socialism always is. Dodd Frank and Obama care is far more damaging to far more people. By the traitor, Justice Roberts. The most damaging part of the bill was not the individual mandate but allowing the government to step in and actually limit profits and dictate corporate spending. The longterm human affects of those actions are going to be a lot worse than what you have mentioned. Add in Dodd-Frank, if it is upheld, then the government is cleared to totally implement a socialist agenda. How many people have socialist killed during that same time period you mention? The number lynched in the US is not even a significant portion of a single percentile of the deaths associated with socialism. The dust bowl, sure bad deal, but 2 milllion homeless, 7 thousand starving to death, not even a busy day for Linnen, Stalin, Mau, Minh, etc. Hell, not even a significant percentage of Americans at the time either. How many died fighting Adolf Hitlers National Socialist (Nazi's) in Germany? Since the first attempt to implement socialism, how many have become homeless and starved to death as a result of attempts to implement such policies? Was Slavery a bad deal for those under it, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of them would of been killed or never existed had slavery not existed. By far, most slaves were sold to Europeans by Africans who captured them in tribal warfare, prior to selling them to Europeans, they were simply killed or enslaved in Africa. Genocide is not anything new in Africa, only the lack of it would actually be a change in their history.

    The Native Americans, well, they got their asses royally kicked because they practiced a form of socialism and never progressed above early stone age and couldn't compete with far superior technology and methods, thus, in the natural order of things, they faded into history. Further, after the US was formed, they stupidly started wars against it and got their butts kicked. No claims to "Indian" terreritory ever derived from the US, the US purchased or got those claims from other countries. They set a really good example, never let your military capabilities and technological advancement fall to such a weak level, someone stronger will come along, kick your ass and take what you thought was yours. The native American wars should of been against European and other powers, not the US.

    Their is no significant difference in how bad a particular act was, but there is a major difference in the scope. Getting lynched in the US was probably a lot better for the individual than ending up in the Gulag in Russia.

    PS. One of the greatest things about the Cold War era was that we got to train for, plan for, practice for and even sometimes we got to kill socialist. There is no greater enemy to mankind than socialism.
    A big difference between your and my perception of Obama is I don't consider him or hIs policies to be socialist. Liberal for sure but IMHO the 'socialst' label is not how he describes himself or how respected economists describe him but the vilification tag he's been given by right-wing media pundits some of whom are expert propagandists whonave been caught on video rubbing vicks vapor rub into their eyes to make themselves look like they're crying uncontrollably over America because of the Obama administration in order to emotionally manipulate their gullible and trusting followers.

    Hope I'm not coming across as condescending but I was once active ona board based in Europe to learn of and study other people and also try to influence other parts of the world when anti-Americansm was at a high point. Several members were self-described socialists. One called himself a communist. I once started a thread asking if they thought Obama was a socialist they unanimously said that was the biggest crock they'd ever heard about him.

    Think about it. What is it about Obama that makes him a 'socialist'? If you're honest and i'm guessing correctly on what you think makes him a socialist, I bet you'd have to give Richard Nixon, FDR, LBJ, Rick Perry, Bill and Hillary Clinton, George W. Bush and Mitt Romney the same designation. Or at least some from that list.
    Last edited by Smeagol; 08-28-12 at 12:51 AM.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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