View Poll Results: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody rights?

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Thread: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody[W:56]

  1. #121
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    Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    This was a he said/she said case and he was not convicted.

    So why do you take her word over his word?

    Does he have any credibility issues that you know of?
    I have no reason not to take her at her word. You have not presented any evidence that I should not.

    Her article was published in the Georgetown Law Journal and therefore I think they believe her claims have credibility since it would not be good for them to tarnish their reputation by distributing work written by a woman making potentially false claims.
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    Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

    [QUOTE=ChrisL;1060838500]
    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post

    Well, I found this which states there are two separate trials. I don't know about juror recommendations.


    What makes a death penalty case different from other criminal cases? - Death Penalty - ProCon.org
    Richard C. Dieter, MS, JD, Executive Director of the Death Penalty Information Center, in Feb. 7, 2007 testimony to the Judiciary Committee of the Colorado State House of Representatives regarding "House Bill 1094 - Costs of the Death Penalty and Related Issues," stated:
    "Everything that is needed for an ordinary trial is needed for a death penalty case, only more so:
    • More pre-trial time will be needed to prepare: cases typically take a year to come to trial more pre-trial motions will be filed and answered.
    • More experts will be hired.
    • Twice as many attorneys will be appointed for the defense, and a comparable team for the prosecution.
    • Jurors will have to be individually quizzed on their views about the death penalty, and they are more likely to be sequestered.
    Two trials instead of one will be conducted: one for guilt and one for punishment.
    • The trial will be longer: a cost study at Duke University (752KB) estimated that death penalty trials take 3 to 5 times longer than typical murder trials
    • And then will come a series of appeals during which the inmates are held in the high security of death row."
    Ah, my bad thhen.

    Even so, my point stands - jurors can be disqualified from capital cases if they don't believe in the death penalty, and jurors who favor the death penalty are more likely to push for it to be used in sentencing.
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    Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody[W:56]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Someone mentioned that earlier in the thread and it was something I hadn't considered when writing the OP. I think that the legal default in all states should be that rapists don't have any rights regarding their children, but that the woman can petition the courts to let the father have rights which she would do in cases of statutory rape, particularly if the it's an 19/16 year old dating type situation.
    A couple of problems with that. One is that the child is entitled to both parents, and it doesn't necessarily lose that right just because one parent is a criminal and that has nothing to do with the rights of the mother. Children are persons in their own right, not just accessories of the mother. Another problem is: Does "not having any rights regarding their children" as you put it absolve him of child support obligations? And again, if so, then what about the rights of the child whose best interest it is not to be raised in poverty if it can be avoided? Family law generally gives fathers who pay support certain rights to access unless there's a really good reason not to, granted that him being a violent sociopath would be a good reason not to.

    If one focuses exclusively on the mother and her rights then it makes sense to have a one size fits all approach. Considering the rights of the child, though, suggests that these should be taken case by case.

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    Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody[W:56]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    A couple of problems with that. One is that the child is entitled to both parents, and it doesn't necessarily lose that right just because one parent is a criminal and that has nothing to do with the rights of the mother. Children are persons in their own right, not just accessories of the mother. Another problem is: Does "not having any rights regarding their children" as you put it absolve him of child support obligations? And again, if so, then what about the rights of the child whose best interest it is not to be raised in poverty if it can be avoided? Family law generally gives fathers who pay support certain rights to access unless there's a really good reason not to, granted that him being a violent sociopath would be a good reason not to.

    If one focuses exclusively on the mother and her rights then it makes sense to have a one size fits all approach. Considering the rights of the child, though, suggests that these should be taken case by case.
    If it was forcible rape, then I have to disagree. He impregnated a woman against her will and attacked her. In this situation, it should be left to the mother's discretion, especially since babies are not capable of making good decisions for themselves and the mother is responsible for the child. As far as child support, yeah, he should have to pay child support. Nobody asked him to go around raping women. That should be just another consequence for his actions. Perhaps he won't rape women anymore.

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    Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody[W:56]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    A couple of problems with that. One is that the child is entitled to both parents, and it doesn't necessarily lose that right just because one parent is a criminal and that has nothing to do with the rights of the mother. Children are persons in their own right, not just accessories of the mother.
    I don't believe that a child is "entitled to both parents." I don't believe entitlement factors into the relationship a child has with their parents. A child either has both, one or none in their life and which, if either, parent they have is determined by either the parent or society depending on the circumstances and laws in place.

    Another problem is: Does "not having any rights regarding their children" as you put it absolve him of child support obligations? And again, if so, then what about the rights of the child whose best interest it is not to be raised in poverty if it can be avoided? Family law generally gives fathers who pay support certain rights to access unless there's a really good reason not to, granted that him being a violent sociopath would be a good reason not to.
    It wouldn't necessarily absolve him of child support. That would depend on the court's decision or whether or not a mother's petition for child support is accepted by the court. It could be argued that if the father can't see the kid, he shouldn't have to pay support, but I don't buy that argument.

    If one focuses exclusively on the mother and her rights then it makes sense to have a one size fits all approach. Considering the rights of the child, though, suggests that these should be taken case by case.
    Eh, I don't think the rights of the child factor into whether or not their rapist father should have access to them. Parents have to make decisions for their children because children, for the most part, can't make them for themselves. As far as I'm concerned, whether or not a kid has contact with their rapist father is a decision that should be left to the mother or guardian.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 08-26-12 at 02:13 PM. Reason: grammar

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    Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    I have no reason not to take her at her word. You have not presented any evidence that I should not.

    Her article was published in the Georgetown Law Journal and therefore I think they believe her claims have credibility since it would not be good for them to tarnish their reputation by distributing work written by a woman making potentially false claims.
    Do you have any evidence that GLJ editors made any efforts to substantiate her accusations?

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    Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammed View Post
    Do you have any evidence that GLJ editors made any efforts to substantiate her accusations?
    If you're the one concerned that she is lying, I think the onus lies on you to put your own mind at rest. Do you have any evidence that she is lying? Her story of being raped isn't unusual or unbelievable. He was convicted of raping this woman in court, so what's your problem?

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    Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    If you're the one concerned that she is lying, I think the onus lies on you to put your own mind at rest. Do you have any evidence that she is lying? Her story of being raped isn't unusual or unbelievable. He was convicted of raping this woman in court, so what's your problem?
    But he wasn't convicted. As stated in the article. As stated by Muhammed. I believe that is the problem.
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    Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody[W:56]

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I just found out the following:


    Now, I am thoroughly disgusted. I am disgusted because I don't think a woman should not be forced to interact with her rapist for the rest of her life. Moreover, I don't think a child should be, even partially, raised by someone so disgusting and who has an inherently toxic relationship with them and their mother.

    Do you agree or disagree?
    A convicted rapist should not get to have any interaction with a child he helped make with rape without the consent of the child's mother.As part of his punishment he should still be forced to pay for child support regardless if the mother allows him to see the child or not.
    Last edited by jamesrage; 08-26-12 at 02:41 PM.
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    Re: If a man fathers a child through rape, should he have visitation or custody right

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    But he wasn't convicted. As stated in the article. As stated by Muhammed. I believe that is the problem.
    I just perused the article, and it doesn't state whether or not he was convicted. However, it does state that there was a trial, and they are referring to this man as the "rapist" which I believe would be libel or slander if he was found innocent of this crime. Especially considering the fact that it was a CNN story, I don't think they would ever refer to one who was found innocent as "the rapist" as they could get sued. I think it is safe to assume that this story is referring to a convicted rapist.

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