View Poll Results: What is the PRIMARY task of a social welfare system?

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  • To ensure that no one lives in poverty

    14 58.33%
  • To redistribute wealth so as to keep all citizens within a given range of each other

    5 20.83%
  • To create a dependent class that can be mobilized for votes

    5 20.83%
  • To socialize individual charity taking advantage of the superior efficiency of government

    0 0%
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Thread: What is the primary purpose of social welfare policy?

  1. #21
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    Re: What is the primary purpose of social welfare policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    how is it unfair for a city to bargain for a factory? who is hurt by this?
    Who is hurt by this are the small businesses who do not benefit from the tax exemptions that the big corporation is able to bribe the government to get. Which puts more of the tax burden on them and hurts those businesses.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    and its not bribery. Of course if one hates corporations, the concept of contract and profit, I can see why you are upset
    And I can't see why someone such as yourself would be so upset for me calling corporate welfare for what it is unless you hate the idea of fair competition in the market place and small businesses earning profit.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  2. #22
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    Re: What is the primary purpose of social welfare policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Who is hurt by this are the small businesses who do not benefit from the tax exemptions that the big corporation is able to bribe the government to get. Which puts more of the tax burden on them and hurts those businesses.



    And I can't see why someone such as yourself would be so upset for me calling corporate welfare for what it is unless you hate the idea of fair competition in the market place and small businesses earning profit.
    That is idiotic

    small businesses by definition are not going to be able to provide a large number of jobs individually.

    its like whining that a custom gun maker won't get the contract to provide the standard infantry weapon to a million soldiers

    I reject your claim that a quid pro quo agreement is "corporate welfare"

  3. #23
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    Re: What is the primary purpose of social welfare policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    That is idiotic

    small businesses by definition are not going to be able to provide a large number of jobs individually.

    its like whining that a custom gun maker won't get the contract to provide the standard infantry weapon to a million soldiers

    I reject your claim that a quid pro quo agreement is "corporate welfare"
    For one, you are assuming that the agenda is to provide people with jobs. But if that's the case, there are other ways we can do that besides provide tax exemptions to corporations that provide the most jobs.

    For another, it's an unfair business advantage that favors one business over another. Large corporations get these tax exemptions but small businesses don't. For example, Amazon is exempt to certain taxes but storefronts are not. Which means that those storefronts bear more of the tax burden. Despite being smaller and taking less profits and being less able to bear that tax burden.

    And, again, the "quid pro quo" here is between the corporations, the lobbyists, and the politicians. Which small businesses can't afford to do. Which means politicians don't listen to them. Which means corporations get unfair business advantages over them. Which hurts the profits of those small business and inhibits fair competition in the marketplace.

    So you can't really reject that this isn't corporate welfare. Because it is.

    What it really means, however, is that you are fine with corporations being welfare parasites. Because that's what they are with every tax exemption, bailout, and government contract they get.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  4. #24
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    Re: What is the primary purpose of social welfare policy?

    Having been a solicitor for a couple of cities I know what the purpose is for cutting tax breaks to encourage a company to come to our jurisdiction-it was to create jobs for our citizens. However, the corporation's goal is not to provide jobs. So your first error is confusing the intentions of different actors

    UNFAIR is a moronic term. is it unfair for a huge retailer to get better wholesale pricing from a maker? no-its called business reality. Better customers get better terms.

    when you use the term "unfair" it demonstrates to me you have a rather agenda laden attitude towards capitalism

    welfare means to me something other than a contract. and in those cases, the city leaders are bargaining for the good of the city while the corporation is bargaining for the good of the company

    handouts to the poor is bargaining not for the good of the political division but for the politicians themselves who use our tax dollars to buy the votes that they enrich themselves with

    I am curious-what sort of employment do you have?

  5. #25
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    Re: What is the primary purpose of social welfare policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Having been a solicitor for a couple of cities I know what the purpose is for cutting tax breaks to encourage a company to come to our jurisdiction-it was to create jobs for our citizens. However, the corporation's goal is not to provide jobs. So your first error is confusing the intentions of different actors

    UNFAIR is a moronic term. is it unfair for a huge retailer to get better wholesale pricing from a maker? no-its called business reality. Better customers get better terms.

    when you use the term "unfair" it demonstrates to me you have a rather agenda laden attitude towards capitalism
    Nope. It is the agenda of capitalism that fair competition between businesses is what allows the best products to get to customers, which is what allows the best companies to thrive.

    But when the government mandates that business pay taxes, but then some businesses are able to pay lobbyists to bribe politicians for tax exemptions or government contracts, that is not allowing fair competition to determine the marketplace, nor is it allowing the best products to get to customers.

    What it is is businesses using the government to gain advantage over other businesses. Which is not the purpose of the government.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    welfare means to me something other than a contract. and in those cases, the city leaders are bargaining for the good of the city while the corporation is bargaining for the good of the company
    Or those city leaders are bargaining for their own good in order to get more contributions from those corporations, and those corporations are using government influence to decrease fair competition, which is bad for consumers.

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    handouts to the poor is bargaining not for the good of the political division but for the politicians themselves who use our tax dollars to buy the votes that they enrich themselves with
    Except politicians get elected only with campaign contributions, and they get much more contributions from corporate executives than they do from unemployed people.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  6. #26
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    Re: What is the primary purpose of social welfare policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Regardless of whether you think that said policy should be designed with some or all of these in mind - which one takes precedence. If given a choice between one thing and any other, which one wins?
    None of them. And you made up a ridicules one. How about one like: To temporally support those that have become sick and lost their job.?

  7. #27
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    Re: What is the primary purpose of social welfare policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    None of those.

    The primary purpose of social welfare is to create a social floor by which no person may fall beneath that all people may have access to and that all people contribute to in the form of taxes when they are able. This social floor includes providing for children, as they cannot provide for themselves, for the mentally ill, as people who suffer mental illness suffer it by no fault of their own, for the physically disabled, who may still contribute to society after some initial support, and to the elderly, who get so old that they can no longer support themselves.
    ...that.... sort of sounds like option #1.... just swap out "social floor" with "poverty line".

    And it is up to the government to provide this social floor as private charities may be too selective in who they determine are worthy support.
    can you explain this?

  8. #28
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    Re: What is the primary purpose of social welfare policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    None of them. And you made up a ridicules one. How about one like: To temporally support those that have become sick and lost their job.?
    at 100% of their previous standard of living?

  9. #29
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    Re: What is the primary purpose of social welfare policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Wasn't one of the choices. I wonder why?
    Because that's #1. Keeping folks out of poverty.

  10. #30
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    Re: What is the primary purpose of social welfare policy?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...that.... sort of sounds like option #1.... just swap out "social floor" with "poverty line".
    That option doesn't fit in my beliefs, as I favor certain government services provided to all people no matter their income or wealth. For example, I want public transportation, education, and health care for all people provided for by government agencies - not just for those below the poverty line. Providing these services, I think, will create that "social floor" as people can benefit from these services no matter their wealth.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    can you explain this?
    Private charities may pick and choose who will benefit from their charity. So, for example, some charities run by fundamentalist churches may choose not to provide charity to homosexuals, for instance. I'd rather that social floor be granted to all people, which is why I prefer them to be run by government agencies that are not allowed to discriminate in such ways.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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