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Who do you believe will win in Nov

Who will win in Nov


  • Total voters
    56
it's still trending Obama, but as i've said before, it's a relatively long time until November, at least politically.
 
I tend to agree with the statement that you have made but I would change one big thing. It is not just the right, libertarians, and the republicans it is the entire political system that has been corrupted. We the people need to pay more attention to what is going on and get more active in the process. The people need to audit the government. A government should always fear the people not the other way around.
Here is one area I would disagree with which is often a libertarian belief. I do not want a government to fear its people. I also do not want the people to fear its government. I would much rather the government to be OF the people and that there is far less separation. We so often use the terms "them" to describe governing powers that be, whereas it should be more of an us.
 
Here is one area I would disagree with which is often a libertarian belief. I do not want a government to fear its people. I also do not want the people to fear its government. I would much rather the government to be OF the people and that there is far less separation. We so often use the terms "them" to describe governing powers that be, whereas it should be more of an us.
I agree.
Let me try to clarify the word fear. I actually bastardized the quote "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty” By Thomas Jefferson. The fear that I was alluding to was the same as if you fear god. It is a respect that is based on the fact that the one that you “fear” is more powerful than you. The government as an institution should “fear” (respect as more powerful than itself) the people. It is one of the meconium’s that keeps the government from overstepping its bounds.

I hope that makes more sense.
 
I would have thought ryan would have made you happy..

You would be wrong in that belief.

Ryan is not putting out a plan that actually solves the problem.
Ryan does not support almost anything that I do.
I would never vote for a president that I find disgusting because I happen to like the VP.
 
Here is one area I would disagree with which is often a libertarian belief. I do not want a government to fear its people. I also do not want the people to fear its government. I would much rather the government to be OF the people and that there is far less separation. We so often use the terms "them" to describe governing powers that be, whereas it should be more of an us.

They are just not us. They are them and we are us. That is how it is. They are the citizens that rule over everyone else while we are the ones being ruled. I don't think you can actually get around that. I have seen plenty tell me, but we elect them, but that means nothing to my fact that I presented. All it means is we have input on who rules us, but it doesn't even explore the amount of input that gives or the amount of choices it provides nor does it actually even face the reality that they are still ruling over everyone else. Its basically like saying if you are hired onto a company and you get a vote on who the ceo is that you are the ceo. It makes no sense. Obviously you are not the CEO and obviously he has the power to run the company and has your job in his hands. All dreams and fairytales aside that is how it is. I do see how that is libertarian belief, but I surely see how that is basic reality that is inescapable.

Anyway, this whole idea of making them scared of us is built on a false premise pretty much. Its assuming we have the power to make them scared or threaten them and that we hold more might over them at any point in time. The fact is they could wipe us off the planet whenever they felt like it and we gave them that power long ago and did so over and over again throughout centuries of time. You want to deny these facts, go right ahead, but the military might says otherwise. It would be wonderful if they were scared of us, but that doesn't happen all that often and its not happening now.
 
I agree.
Let me try to clarify the word fear. I actually bastardized the quote "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty” By Thomas Jefferson. The fear that I was alluding to was the same as if you fear god. It is a respect that is based on the fact that the one that you “fear” is more powerful than you. The government as an institution should “fear” (respect as more powerful than itself) the people. It is one of the meconium’s that keeps the government from overstepping its bounds.

I hope that makes more sense.

I like that quote. I believe that quote. Unfortunately, Congress already fears the people. They fear their not getting re-elected more than they fear the people -- which is why they're spending us broke. Largess buys votes--on both sides of the aisle.
 
I like that quote. I believe that quote. Unfortunately, Congress already fears the people. They fear their not getting re-elected more than they fear the people -- which is why they're spending us broke. Largess buys votes--on both sides of the aisle.

You mean this quote:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville

There is a reason the founders went out of their way to make sure that kind of thing was impossible and there is a reason they made a point to say what they were setting up was NOT a democracy.
 
You mean this quote:

There is a reason the founders went out of their way to make sure that kind of thing was impossible and there is a reason they made a point to say what they were setting up was NOT a democracy.

I've always liked:

Those who rob from Peter to pay Paul will always have Paul's support.

That is exactly what's going on today. And it works both ways.
 
They are just not us. They are them and we are us. That is how it is. They are the citizens that rule over everyone else while we are the ones being ruled. I don't think you can actually get around that. I have seen plenty tell me, but we elect them, but that means nothing to my fact that I presented. All it means is we have input on who rules us, but it doesn't even explore the amount of input that gives or the amount of choices it provides nor does it actually even face the reality that they are still ruling over everyone else. Its basically like saying if you are hired onto a company and you get a vote on who the ceo is that you are the ceo. It makes no sense. Obviously you are not the CEO and obviously he has the power to run the company and has your job in his hands. All dreams and fairytales aside that is how it is. I do see how that is libertarian belief, but I surely see how that is basic reality that is inescapable.

Anyway, this whole idea of making them scared of us is built on a false premise pretty much. Its assuming we have the power to make them scared or threaten them and that we hold more might over them at any point in time. The fact is they could wipe us off the planet whenever they felt like it and we gave them that power long ago and did so over and over again throughout centuries of time. You want to deny these facts, go right ahead, but the military might says otherwise. It would be wonderful if they were scared of us, but that doesn't happen all that often and its not happening now.
That assumes that the military is not made up of “us”. Threw out history the military was the dog of the government; America is different in that the military is made up of free people that were raised to protect freedom not the government. We that make up the military take an oath which includes “I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic”. This means that if someone in a high office shows themselves to be an enemy of the constitution that the military has a duty to the people first and foremost over any illegal order.

I feel sorry for any government official that tries to use the U.S. military against the people of the United States.
 
Not a clue. There's been a lot of back and forth and mostly the polls are too close to call either decisively... and it is early yet, plenty of time for someone to stick foot-in-mouth.

Most of the time, if it is too close to call, chance favors the incumbent.

So, dunno.
 
Seems ryan has given romney a boost. See cpwill I can admit it :) I just read Romney took the lead in Ohio, Fla and Wisconsin all big swing states in a quinnipiac poll which seem to be fair minded pollsters.

Quinnipiac: Obama Leading in Florida, Ohio, Wisconsin

There is also the a famously accurate poll model that predicts Presidential winners having romny as winning in nov...using thier model they have been 100% accurate since 1980 in predicting the winner.

Analysis of election factors points to Romney win, University of Colorado study says | University of Colorado Boulder

Do you believe Obama or Romney will win in Nov....I still believe the debates can turn the tide and firmly place the winner, however, going into the debates Romny/Ryan have a clear edge.

Obama will win.Romney is not much of a contrast to Obama, so real conservatives will vote 3rd party or not vote for president at all.The green with envy crowd won't vote for a republican regardless of how rich democrats are and regardless how liberal the republican is.Only die hard republican party-tards are voting for Romney and while democrat party-tards and other idiots are voting for Obama.
 
They are just not us. They are them and we are us. That is how it is. They are the citizens that rule over everyone else while we are the ones being ruled. I don't think you can actually get around that. I have seen plenty tell me, but we elect them, but that means nothing to my fact that I presented. All it means is we have input on who rules us, but it doesn't even explore the amount of input that gives or the amount of choices it provides nor does it actually even face the reality that they are still ruling over everyone else. Its basically like saying if you are hired onto a company and you get a vote on who the ceo is that you are the ceo. It makes no sense. Obviously you are not the CEO and obviously he has the power to run the company and has your job in his hands. All dreams and fairytales aside that is how it is. I do see how that is libertarian belief, but I surely see how that is basic reality that is inescapable.

Anyway, this whole idea of making them scared of us is built on a false premise pretty much. Its assuming we have the power to make them scared or threaten them and that we hold more might over them at any point in time. The fact is they could wipe us off the planet whenever they felt like it and we gave them that power long ago and did so over and over again throughout centuries of time. You want to deny these facts, go right ahead, but the military might says otherwise. It would be wonderful if they were scared of us, but that doesn't happen all that often and its not happening now.

You would think that anyone who hates the American system of government as much as you do would look for greener pastures and exercise their right of choice.
 
I disagree, I think Romney is going to have several moments in the debates where he contradicts himself, and Obama will pounce.

I think that Romney went through a brutal primary, whereas Obama has been relatively coasting for the last 3.5 years. If Romney was at the point where he was going to contradict himself in such a way as to wreck his candidacy in a debate, he would have done it against Gingrich, who, for all his problems, is indeed a better debater than either Obama or Romney.

And I believe you are underestimating Biden, that debate will be closer than you think.

We shall see, but I think you are hoping Biden pulls out something he just doesn't have. The moderator is a foreign affairs correspondent - and for all that folks think "oh that's where Biden has experience"... it's where he has alot of experience making particularly boneheaded screwups. No one questions whether or not Ryan is smart enough to be President, that is a real concern with Biden. Watch for Ryan to slam that home.
 
I must be one of the few people that isn't worried about either one winning. Obama doesn't do much of anything except talk, so no problem there. And everything Romney seems to do he excels at. He's very qualified to run this country by any measurable standard.
 
I think that Romney went through a brutal primary, whereas Obama has been relatively coasting for the last 3.5 years. If Romney was at the point where he was going to contradict himself in such a way as to wreck his candidacy in a debate, he would have done it against Gingrich, who, for all his problems, is indeed a better debater than either Obama or Romney.

...

We shall see, but I think you are hoping Biden pulls out something he just doesn't have. The moderator is a foreign affairs correspondent - and for all that folks think "oh that's where Biden has experience"... it's where he has alot of experience making particularly boneheaded screwups. No one questions whether or not Ryan is smart enough to be President, that is a real concern with Biden. Watch for Ryan to slam that home.


I think your taking her statement out of context...I think shes inferring that Romny is going to be asked direct questions that he has never been willing to answer...and hes going to either stumble and bumble or answer the question he so fears to answer...
I also think your worship of everything Paul Ryan is way out of proportion to what hes earned
 
I think that Romney went through a brutal primary, whereas Obama has been relatively coasting for the last 3.5 years.

That line is funnier than Henny Youngman saying "take my wife..... please".
 
That line is funnier than Henny Youngman saying "take my wife..... please".

Oh man did that slap an old memory back into my head...Henny Youngman..wow he was hilarious...My father used to roar with laughter watching his routine...god bless both their souls...:)
 
That line is funnier than Henny Youngman saying "take my wife..... please".

When it comes to taking on verbal challenges in an open and public forum he's had two that I can think of - when he had the "healthcare working group" and when he went to go speak to the Republican retreat. In both instances Paul Ryan publicly made him look foolish. :shrug: Obama just isn't the orator that the breathless media told us he was in 2008. He's good. But he's not that good. Orators who are that good are actually - you know - able to convince people of things.
 
I think Obama will win, but it's a long way from over. I kind of thought I should have marked two of the possible answers.
 
I think your taking her statement out of context...I think shes inferring that Romny is going to be asked direct questions that he has never been willing to answer...and hes going to either stumble and bumble or answer the question he so fears to answer...

No, I understood. I am saying that Romney has spent the last two years having people try to do precisely that to him; and went through a series of primary debates where not only the moderators but multiple opponents tried to do the same. She is betting on a single event that is unlikely to happen.

I also think your worship of everything Paul Ryan is way out of proportion to what hes earned

Worship? No. But I - like many Democrats - greatly respect the man for what he has done, and I think Joe Biden reminds me of the kind of guy who insists on sitting next to you in the train so he can tell you about the squirrels in his lawn.
 
When it comes to taking on verbal challenges in an open and public forum he's had two that I can think of - when he had the "healthcare working group" and when he went to go speak to the Republican retreat. In both instances Paul Ryan publicly made him look foolish. :shrug: Obama just isn't the orator that the breathless media told us he was in 2008. He's good. But he's not that good. Orators who are that good are actually - you know - able to convince people of things.

Well your right hes not a GREAT ORATOR...but were not talking about giving a speech...were talking about debates...where they are asked direct questions and have to either give a direct answer or tapdance and do the hulahoop in front of millions of americans....no great oratory skills needed for either of them
 
Well your right hes not a GREAT ORATOR...but were not talking about giving a speech...were talking about debates...where they are asked direct questions and have to either give a direct answer or tapdance and do the hulahoop in front of millions of americans....no great oratory skills needed for either of them

On the contrary, that is where your oratorical skills are needed most. Obama is "good" at giving prepared speeches. He is not so "good" at off-the-cuff.
 
No, I understood. I am saying that Romney has spent the last two years having people try to do precisely that to him; and went through a series of primary debates where not only the moderators but multiple opponents tried to do the same. She is betting on a single event that is unlikely to happen.



Worship? No. But I - like many Democrats - greatly respect the man for what he has done, and I think Joe Biden reminds me of the kind of guy who insists on sitting next to you in the train so he can tell you about the squirrels in his lawn.




Will what your forgetting or omitting is that romney did TERRIBLE in every debate and thats not my statement that foxnews critiques and everyone else...he did lousy in debates...his salvation he was up against mostly total tards like bachman and the 999 pizza moron and ron paul who it wouldnt get him elected if he came out #1 every debate...romney is not all that in debates actually he kind of sucks...all he did was dodge dodge dodge...if he does that in the presidential debates he'll lose enough votes to lose the election....and yes you give the aura you worshop paul ryan...you accuse us of alot of things for one we wouldnt admit if ryan gave him a boost...but its pretty clear you dont find a single thing wrong with ryan or what he says buddy :) Ryan aint all that either
 
That assumes that the military is not made up of “us”. Threw out history the military was the dog of the government; America is different in that the military is made up of free people that were raised to protect freedom not the government.

I'm not sure if that is more of a dream or a reality, but I'm leaning heavily towards a dream. I think its a magical thought to think the men and women that choose to join the military ranks will not simply gun us down if ordered to do so, and I can't think of any sort of substantial history to back up these claims they wouldn't. The truth is the government would jail and kill them if they said no and I doubt they are unaware of such truths. I think as soon as any sort of problems arose our men and women would start getting jailed and charged with treason and in no time flat the problems would simply disappear in the military ranks.

We that make up the military take an oath which includes “I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic”. This means that if someone in a high office shows themselves to be an enemy of the constitution that the military has a duty to the people first and foremost over any illegal order.

I just don't see this making any sort of difference at all. Oaths themselves have never shown themselves to be anything more than words.
 
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