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Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

Are Ronmey's undisclosed tax returns equal in importance to Obama's college records?

  • Yes. Obama's college records are of equal value to Romney's tax returns

    Votes: 15 22.4%
  • No. Its just the best political come back the GOP can come up with under the circumstances

    Votes: 29 43.3%
  • Neither tax or college records matter in the election.

    Votes: 17 25.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 6 9.0%

  • Total voters
    67
They are both largely immaterial but romneys taxes are slightly more relevant purely because they are more recent and are purely within his control.
One could have the POV that Romney was in control of his taxes, but my experience leads me to think that the culture he was in (possibly is in) was to have experts do his taxes like his peers. A CEO type doesn’t actually do the work, they exorcise their judgment on who would be the best group to do the work, including his taxes. Also, from a CEO’s typical POV when a group screws up they blame the group. Secretly they may blame themselves for choosing them, but they still blame them since they didn’t do what they said they would do.
One of my wife's experiences was that the CEO wanted and asked her to do something illegal, but not in writing. This was a set up so that a few engineers would be blamed if caught by the feds, but not the CEO.
 
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How is that possible? What is a grade taken in a class decades ago going to tell you that his four years as President have not told you?

His thesis is included in his transcripts.
 
You are exactly correct. Politically damaging.

Now...think about it. Obama has been harping on Romney being rich, Romney taking advantage of the tax code, etc, etc. But all of it has been wild speculation...and that speculation will only take that tactic so far. With Romney's returns, they would have a gold mine of legal tax activity to spin in the worst possible light. That's why they want the stuff.

Now. Why would Romney be stupid enough to release his records? He's better off letting the crazy taxers rant on and on with unfounded speculation than to give them what they want.

I've said before and I'll say it again: I expect Obama to put out the word to stop this taxer ****. If they keep it up, he'll get hurt.

I have been quite clear that I do not think Romney will release his taxes, and that he would be foolish to do so. That does not mean that the attacks on his taxes(or more accurately, his not releasing more) are not effective.
 
I have been quite clear that I do not think Romney will release his taxes, and that he would be foolish to do so. That does not mean that the attacks on his taxes(or more accurately, his not releasing more) are not effective.

I think the longer the liberals harp on this the more it'll end up hurting them.
 
Some stuff from
Lid Blowing Off Romney Tax Secrecy - Business Insider

A second issue that has been raised is that various Bain entities converted management fees to carried interest (via Ryan Grim).

While people know that the carried interest loophole (which makes management compensation into capital gains) exists and is legal, the issue raised by Professor Victor Fleischer of University of Colorado Law School is that private equity firms have come up with a way to make fees that are unarguably management fees subject to ordinary income (35% tax) into capital gains (15% tax) by "waiving" the fees in exchange for virtually certain future profit, so that the extremely slight economic risk is disproportionately small compared to the tax gain. Fleischer argues that this is flat out illegal and concludes: "Mitt Romney has not paid all the taxes required under law." Not all experts agree. We can look forward to more argument on this issue in coming days. Even if it is legal, it is morally even less defensible than the carried interest loophole.

In the end, we are still left with the fact that the tax system for the 1% is different from that for the rest of us. Whether Romney releases more tax returns or not, that issue is not going away. And the drip, drip, drip of new information makes me think he will eventually cave in.

Read more: Lid Blowing Off Romney Tax Secrecy | Angry Bear - Financial and Economic Commentary
 
Some stuff from
Lid Blowing Off Romney Tax Secrecy - Business Insider

A second issue that has been raised is that various Bain entities converted management fees to carried interest (via Ryan Grim).

While people know that the carried interest loophole (which makes management compensation into capital gains) exists and is legal, the issue raised by Professor Victor Fleischer of University of Colorado Law School is that private equity firms have come up with a way to make fees that are unarguably management fees subject to ordinary income (35% tax) into capital gains (15% tax) by "waiving" the fees in exchange for virtually certain future profit, so that the extremely slight economic risk is disproportionately small compared to the tax gain. Fleischer argues that this is flat out illegal and concludes: "Mitt Romney has not paid all the taxes required under law." Not all experts agree. We can look forward to more argument on this issue in coming days. Even if it is legal, it is morally even less defensible than the carried interest loophole.

In the end, we are still left with the fact that the tax system for the 1% is different from that for the rest of us. Whether Romney releases more tax returns or not, that issue is not going away. And the drip, drip, drip of new information makes me think he will eventually cave in.

Read more: Lid Blowing Off Romney Tax Secrecy | Angry Bear - Financial and Economic Commentary

Perhaps the good Professor should sue Romney. Somehow, I don't think he's going to convince any Law Enforcement Agency to take up the case if they haven't already.
 
Perhaps the good Professor should sue Romney. Somehow, I don't think he's going to convince any Law Enforcement Agency to take up the case if they haven't already.
This has been posted several times by others and me. When the IRS catches somebody he is usually offered amnesty. For the offence that is being mentioned most often, the IRS offered amnesty and lower fines if he and the people that did his taxes would correct the return and pay a fine. No law enforcement agency involved. This is typical, not an exception.
 
This has been posted several times by others and me. When the IRS catches somebody he is usually offered amnesty. For the offence that is being mentioned most often, the IRS offered amnesty and lower fines if he and the people that did his taxes would correct the return and pay a fine. No law enforcement agency involved. This is typical, not an exception.

shrug...

I would consider the IRS to be a law enforcement agency...especially in light of tax violations.

At any rate, I've seen no indication that they were ever concerned about Romney's methods for reducing his tax exposure.
 
Concerning Romney, the American ju$tice $y$tem i$ working the $ame a$ it ever did.. The golden rule of justice is that those who have the gold are given preferential treatment.
 
I can't believe you don't have an option for Obama's transcripts being more valuable than Romney's tax returns. We all know what are in Romney's tax returns. He made a hell of a lot of money, paid a hell of a lot in taxes, but the overall percentage if you take out corporate taxes was probably about the same as the average for the middle class, which is slightly lower than Buffett's rich secretary.

What we don't know is how Obama choomed his way through Occidental and got into Columbia. Then how he failed to even make honors at Columbia and got into Harvard. THAT would be an interesting story.
 
Some stuff from
Lid Blowing Off Romney Tax Secrecy - Business Insider

A second issue that has been raised is that various Bain entities converted management fees to carried interest (via Ryan Grim).

While people know that the carried interest loophole (which makes management compensation into capital gains) exists and is legal, the issue raised by Professor Victor Fleischer of University of Colorado Law School is that private equity firms have come up with a way to make fees that are unarguably management fees subject to ordinary income (35% tax) into capital gains (15% tax) by "waiving" the fees in exchange for virtually certain future profit, so that the extremely slight economic risk is disproportionately small compared to the tax gain. Fleischer argues that this is flat out illegal and concludes: "Mitt Romney has not paid all the taxes required under law." Not all experts agree. We can look forward to more argument on this issue in coming days. Even if it is legal, it is morally even less defensible than the carried interest loophole.

In the end, we are still left with the fact that the tax system for the 1% is different from that for the rest of us. Whether Romney releases more tax returns or not, that issue is not going away. And the drip, drip, drip of new information makes me think he will eventually cave in.

Read more: Lid Blowing Off Romney Tax Secrecy | Angry Bear - Financial and Economic Commentary

Forgoing fees with the hope that you are building the company enough that it will still pay you after you step away from management duties is not risky?? I love professors who have no clue how business works. Seriously? What a crapload. Oh, and by the way, I think that's one loophole Romney would get rid of in his tax plan. I don't think Obama's even been able to figure out it exists.
 
shrug... I would consider the IRS to be a law enforcement agency...especially in light of tax violations.
Then someone on the street that sees a crime is a law and reports it is a law enforcement agency?

At any rate, I've seen no indication that they were ever concerned about Romney's methods for reducing his tax exposure.
Who is the "they" you are talking about, the IRS? I haven't eather. It just that the companies that were doing the things that Bain was doing, e.g. multiple accounts in Cayman Islands, are done to skirt the intent of US tax law and sometimes to hide illegal tax dodges. One thing I pointed to was taking a trivial salery from your Cayman copany but gettin a set up buy on stock at a low price instead. Almost legal.
 
I can't believe you don't have an option for Obama's transcripts being more valuable than Romney's tax returns. We all know what are in Romney's tax returns. He made a hell of a lot of money, paid a hell of a lot in taxes, but the overall percentage if you take out corporate taxes was probably about the same as the average for the middle class, which is slightly lower than Buffett's rich secretary.

What we don't know is how Obama choomed his way through Occidental and got into Columbia. Then how he failed to even make honors at Columbia and got into Harvard. THAT would be an interesting story.

I don't see how either really matters in the election. I'd rather see them release pages of explanations on how they are going to help restore America's greatness; that would be a document worth reading and analyzing
 
This has been posted several times by others and me. When the IRS catches somebody he is usually offered amnesty. For the offence that is being mentioned most often, the IRS offered amnesty and lower fines if he and the people that did his taxes would correct the return and pay a fine. No law enforcement agency involved. This is typical, not an exception.

Indeed. To actually bring the justice department in requires something like deliberate tax evasion for several years, large amounts owed and refusal to pay.

Wesley Snipes for example. Most people aren't dumb enough to actually resort to tax evader claims like the government has no right to tax.
 
I don't see how either really matters in the election. I'd rather see them release pages of explanations on how they are going to help restore America's greatness; that would be a document worth reading and analyzing
Does this include how to successfully overcome a party that declares that it will do anything to make the president unsuccessful like the Republicans announced and did to Obama?
 
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My opinion is that Obama's records are far more important.
 
Of course not. We already know Obama was in the top ten % in his Harvard law class.

Romney blew off his mouth that he should be pOTUS as he "understands" the economy based on his personal experience.

He paid 13% on only a small portion of his income and has illegal income and income without any taxes paid in offshore accounts and this is all with the past 15 years. He is a poseur and a fraud.

http://www.businessinsider.com/law-...neys-tax-avoidance-schemes-was-illegal-2012-8

And one law professor, Victor Fleischer of the University of Colorado, has found a tax-avoidance trick used by the funds that is illegal.
As expected, the Bain funds appear to have employed pretty much every sophisticated tax-dodging scheme in the book, including:

creating "blocker" corporations that allow the funds to avoid business taxes,
entering into credit-default swaps that allow the funds to avoid dividend taxes, and, of course,
taking advantage of the ludicrous "carried interest" tax loophole that allows private-equity and hedge-fund managers to treat their performance fees as capital gains instead of ordinary income and thus pay a tiny fraction of the taxes on them that normal professionals would pay
All of these tricks rely on legal technicalities and sophisticated techniques to avoid taxes. For practical purposes, none of them are available to average taxpayers, because they require considerable sophistication and expense to set up and maintain


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/law-...ance-schemes-was-illegal-2012-8#ixzz24fw5TIwV
 
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Of course not. We already know Obama was in the top ten % in his Harvard law class.

Romney blew off his mouth that he should be pOTUS as he "understands" the economy based on his personal experience.

He paid 13% on only a small portion of his income and has illegal income and income without any taxes paid in offshore accounts and this is all with the past 15 years. He is a poseur and a fraud.

Law Professor Says One Of Romney's Tax-Avoidance Schemes Was Illegal - Business Insider




Read more: Law Professor Says One Of Romney's Tax-Avoidance Schemes Was Illegal - Business Insider

quote from your article, "
And one law professor, Victor Fleischer of the University of Colorado, believes he has found a tax-avoidance trick used by the funds that is illegal."

Belief does not make it a fact. (if one beliefs pig fly, does not make it so).

Now when the IRS and the courts finds Romney guilty of tax avoidance, you have something. Till then, just a poltical hack article.
 
"...How can any logical-thinking person give a damn about Romney’s taxes while not asking any questions regarding our current president’s past?" --Scott Paulson.
’2016: Obama’s America’ Movie Is Disturbingly Necessary « CBS Chicago

This tax issue is just a distraction from so many more important issues that should be talked about in an election year. And the people pushing for the release of some tax forms are starting to sound like the so-called "birthers". There are a lot of disturbing facts about the current President that make this tax issue extremely minor and meaningless, yet some people are just looking the other way about the President's past and record as President.
 
Does this include how to successfully overcome a party that declares that it will do anything to make the president unsuccessful like the Republicans announced and did to Obama?

I wasn't pointing fingers at Obama. I fully understand everything that he is struggling to get past to do anything
 
So you don't have to go anywhere to read a bit of what was expected given that Romney's Bain was operating many corporations from the Cayman Islands:
Bain Capital's tax breaks: Are they legal?
August 25, 2012

(MoneyWatch) Gossip website Gawker released 950 pages of Bain Capital records Thursday, shedding light on two controversial campaign issues: Mitt Romney's financial portfolio and the sometimes aggressive strategies used by Bain Capital, which he founded, and other private equity firms to reduce taxes that partners pay on income from their investments.
The document dump will stoke the political fires, as partisans call attention to documents such as Bain Capital Fund VII, a $515 million Cayman Island-based limited partnership in which Ann Romney has at least $1 million, according to financial disclosure forms. In the words of the writer, John Cook, the documents "reveal the mind-numbing, maze-like, and deeply opaque complexity with which Romney has handled his wealth, the exotic tax-avoidance schemes available only to the preposterously wealthy."
Reaction ranged from an angry Bain statement decrying the release of confidential documents to a yawn from a Fortune blogger who claimed this was old news to an accusation by a Colorado University law professor who argued that the documents revealed evidence of an illegal tax dodge. What's not in dispute: The documents show that Bain, like other private equity firms, goes to great lengths to reduce its tax liability, and they show how tax loopholes are available to wealthy investors that less affluent, salaried workers can't use.
What tax rate would Romney pay?How the Ryan plan would affect you Campaign 2012: Complete coverage
To understand why someone like Mitt Romney, who is worth an estimated $250 million, can pay a tax rate in the range of 13 percent (the top income tax rate, 35 percent, applies to that portion of income over $388,350, for married couples filing jointly), it helps to understand how private equity fund partners are paid. Fund managers earn a management fee, typically 2 percent of assets under management, and a share of the profits, typically 20 percent. (This structure, often referred to as 2 and 20, is also used in hedge funds, and that's why it's better to manage a hedge fund than invest in one.) In some cases, Bain charged 2 and 30.
The 2 and 20 structure makes for a nice tax deal: While the 2 percent management fee is taxed as ordinary income, the 20 is treated as a long-term capital gain, which is taxed at 15 percent. In private equity lingo, the income from profits is called "carried interest." Many people, including Warren Buffett, have criticized the tax treatment of carried interest, arguing that it's simply compensation, and ought to be taxed as such. President Obama has called for a change in the law that would treat carried interest as income. Not surprisingly, private equity investors guard their tax break fiercely. In a widely reported remark in 2010, one of the biggest names in private equity equated such a tax hike with Nazism. "It's war. It's like when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939," said Blackstone chairman and co-founder Steve Schwarzman, who has a net worth of $5.5 billion, according to Forbes.
Here's where the fun begins. Not satisfied with only paying low rates on the carried interest, private equity partners, and their tax advisors, have come up with a tax strategy to pay the lower tax rate on their 2 percent management fee as well. The recently revealed Bain documents show that Bain Capital has used a strategy, known as management fee conversion, to convert their fees into carried interest. Also known as a management fee waiver, the strategy has been popular among private equity firms for years, and is dissected in this 2007 article in a tax journal. (page 18, for the intrepid)
Bain Used Strategy
The documents released yesterday suggest Bain used the fee waiver strategy. In the financials for Bain Fund X, the managers state that in 2009, they waived $89 million of the $214 million in fees owing that year. They further state that they waived a total of $338 million of fees for years up to and including 2009. In the financials for Bain Fund VII, the managers admit to having waived fees in the past.
http://m.cbsnews.com/fullstory.rbml?catid=57500221&feed_id=76&videofeed=43

It quacks like a duck, it looks like a duck, it's in a flock of ducks, gee, I wonder if it's a duck.
 
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quote from your article, "
And one law professor, Victor Fleischer of the University of Colorado, believes he has found a tax-avoidance trick used by the funds that is illegal."

Belief does not make it a fact. (if one beliefs pig fly, does not make it so).

Now when the IRS and the courts finds Romney guilty of tax avoidance, you have something. Till then, just a poltical hack article.


Business Insider is hardly a hack publication. He used "believes" because Romney will not allow anyone to look into his financial dealings/ returns/offshore accounting except for only one year when he knew he would be running for POTUS.

Romney not only hid millions in order to avoid paying taxes at even the percentage a middle class American would he used questionable methods for others to move companies assets offshore and dismantle American economy.


Gingrich was right about something ... it is unprecedented in America that we would have such a secretive candidate who not only is hiding his maneuvering of millions he made simply by taking a slice of the pie by sheltering other uber rich people to move companies out of our country and for them to also avoid paying the same percentage in taxes that middle class hard working American pay.
 
Business Insider is hardly a hack publication. He used "believes" because Romney will not allow anyone to look into his financial dealings/ returns/offshore accounting except for only one year when he knew he would be running for POTUS.

Romney not only hid millions in order to avoid paying taxes at even the percentage a middle class American would he used questionable methods for others to move companies assets offshore and dismantle American economy.


Gingrich was right about something ... it is unprecedented in America that we would have such a secretive candidate who not only is hiding his maneuvering of millions he made simply by taking a slice of the pie by sheltering other uber rich people to move companies out of our country and for them to also avoid paying the same percentage in taxes that middle class hard working American pay.

It is persons opinion. IRS has access to his tax records. Have they filed charges against Romney?
 
It is persons opinion. IRS has access to his tax records. Have they filed charges against Romney?
Again. If Romney accepted amnesty the IRS stops
taking the next step, which is proceeding to prosecutors, he pays a fine and
the taxes he owes with an amended return
.


This has been posted several times by others and me. When the IRS catches somebody usually is usually offered amnesty. For the offence that is being mentioned most often the IRS offered amnesty and lower fines if he and the people that did his taxes would correct the return and pay a fine. No law enforcement agency involved. This is typical, not an exception.
 
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