View Poll Results: Are Ronmey's undisclosed tax returns equal in importance to Obama's college records?

Voters
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  • Yes. Obama's college records are of equal value to Romney's tax returns

    19 20.00%
  • No. Its just the best political come back the GOP can come up with under the circumstances

    42 44.21%
  • Neither tax or college records matter in the election.

    22 23.16%
  • Other

    12 12.63%
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Thread: Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

  1. #171
    Politically Correct

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    Re: Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

    They are both largely immaterial but romneys taxes are slightly more relevant purely because they are more recent and are purely within his control.

  2. #172
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    Re: Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    Speculation is the basis for a lot of good work. I did it in engineering. We would speculate on how some design could fail and what the result would be, etc. Some of what Bain did invites speculation. Recent documents invite speculation. If Obama’s wife showed up bruised from an obvious beating you are saying you would not speculate. I would. Yup, many people amend their tax submittal. The fines for amnesty do show up according to what I’ve been informed.
    Interesting you would use engineering as an example for speculation. Speculation can lead to false accusation. Those speculations can ruin a persons life. The Duke lacrosse players comes to mind.

    Are you are relying on Bain rather than the IRS? What is interesting is the IRS is so silent on what Bain did and how it affects Romneys tax return. So according to you speculation is "basis for a lot of good work", lets speculate that the other party is keeping the tax thing stirred knowing they have nothing, but want to deflect from more important issues. Lets speculate that Obama is behind any false information being released during the election year. How is that helping voters decide where a candidate stands on issues?

    I will ask you the same thing I asked another poster. If Romney released 7-10 years worth of tax records, how would that influence your vote? I suspect that you are not going to vote for him anyway.

  3. #173
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    Re: Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

    Mr. Romney has few topics about which he can now speak. One by one, the substantive topics for debate are disappearing, deemed too problematic for the Romney campaign to address. Business acumen, experience as governor, US Olympics, Romney budget, women's issues, immigration reform, all toxic. Mr. Romney is reduced to dragging out the birther baggage to pad his stump speeches and give his base a few crumbs. And to call attention away from his flip-flopping on all important issues.

    But what is the single issue on which Mr. Romney has never flip-flopped? He stands doggedly firm on never, under any circumstances, releasing his tax returns.

    Why?

    It is not just liberals who want to see Romney's tax returns.
    It is 63% of American voters who do.

    The longer Mr. Romney delays, the more suspicious it appears.

    Obama released 8 years of tax returns
    GW Bush 10 years
    Clinton 12 years
    GHW Bush 14 years
    George Romney 12 years.

    What is there to hide?
    Release the tax returns, Mr. Romney.

  4. #174
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    Re: Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

    Quote Originally Posted by DGarr View Post
    Mr. Romney has few topics about which he can now speak. One by one, the substantive topics for debate are disappearing, deemed too problematic for the Romney campaign to address. Business acumen, experience as governor, US Olympics, Romney budget, women's issues, immigration reform, all toxic. Mr. Romney is reduced to dragging out the birther baggage to pad his stump speeches and give his base a few crumbs. And to call attention away from his flip-flopping on all important issues.

    But what is the single issue on which Mr. Romney has never flip-flopped? He stands doggedly firm on never, under any circumstances, releasing his tax returns.

    Why?

    It is not just liberals who want to see Romney's tax returns.
    It is 63% of American voters who do.

    The longer Mr. Romney delays, the more suspicious it appears.

    Obama released 8 years of tax returns
    GW Bush 10 years
    Clinton 12 years
    GHW Bush 14 years
    George Romney 12 years.

    What is there to hide?
    Release the tax returns, Mr. Romney.
    Well said.

    Only Romney can answer the question as what he is trying to hide or protect. The longer he drags this out, the worse the appearance is going to be and greater damage it possibly can do to his candidacy and electability.
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  5. #175
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    Re: Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You are not following OC's point. It is simply political calculations. If it is less damaging politically to release the tax forms, you release them. If it is less damaging to not release them, you don't. Note that phrase "damaging politically", which is different from being illegal, immoral, or inappropriate. Romney could have done nothing wrong, but still have things in his tax records that would be damaging politically.
    You are exactly correct. Politically damaging.

    Now...think about it. Obama has been harping on Romney being rich, Romney taking advantage of the tax code, etc, etc. But all of it has been wild speculation...and that speculation will only take that tactic so far. With Romney's returns, they would have a gold mine of legal tax activity to spin in the worst possible light. That's why they want the stuff.

    Now. Why would Romney be stupid enough to release his records? He's better off letting the crazy taxers rant on and on with unfounded speculation than to give them what they want.

    I've said before and I'll say it again: I expect Obama to put out the word to stop this taxer ****. If they keep it up, he'll get hurt.
    TANSTAAFL

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  6. #176
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    Re: Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    They are both largely immaterial but romneys taxes are slightly more relevant purely because they are more recent and are purely within his control.
    One could have the POV that Romney was in control of his taxes, but my experience leads me to think that the culture he was in (possibly is in) was to have experts do his taxes like his peers. A CEO type doesn’t actually do the work, they exorcise their judgment on who would be the best group to do the work, including his taxes. Also, from a CEO’s typical POV when a group screws up they blame the group. Secretly they may blame themselves for choosing them, but they still blame them since they didn’t do what they said they would do.
    One of my wife's experiences was that the CEO wanted and asked her to do something illegal, but not in writing. This was a set up so that a few engineers would be blamed if caught by the feds, but not the CEO.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 08-25-12 at 02:50 PM.

  7. #177
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    Re: Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    How is that possible? What is a grade taken in a class decades ago going to tell you that his four years as President have not told you?
    His thesis is included in his transcripts.
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  8. #178
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    Re: Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    You are exactly correct. Politically damaging.

    Now...think about it. Obama has been harping on Romney being rich, Romney taking advantage of the tax code, etc, etc. But all of it has been wild speculation...and that speculation will only take that tactic so far. With Romney's returns, they would have a gold mine of legal tax activity to spin in the worst possible light. That's why they want the stuff.

    Now. Why would Romney be stupid enough to release his records? He's better off letting the crazy taxers rant on and on with unfounded speculation than to give them what they want.

    I've said before and I'll say it again: I expect Obama to put out the word to stop this taxer ****. If they keep it up, he'll get hurt.
    I have been quite clear that I do not think Romney will release his taxes, and that he would be foolish to do so. That does not mean that the attacks on his taxes(or more accurately, his not releasing more) are not effective.
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  9. #179
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    Re: Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I have been quite clear that I do not think Romney will release his taxes, and that he would be foolish to do so. That does not mean that the attacks on his taxes(or more accurately, his not releasing more) are not effective.
    I think the longer the liberals harp on this the more it'll end up hurting them.
    TANSTAAFL

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    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  10. #180
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    Re: Are Romney's undisclosed taxes equally relavant to Obama's college records?

    Some stuff from
    Lid Blowing Off Romney Tax Secrecy - Business Insider

    A second issue that has been raised is that various Bain entities converted management fees to carried interest (via Ryan Grim).

    While people know that the carried interest loophole (which makes management compensation into capital gains) exists and is legal, the issue raised by Professor Victor Fleischer of University of Colorado Law School is that private equity firms have come up with a way to make fees that are unarguably management fees subject to ordinary income (35% tax) into capital gains (15% tax) by "waiving" the fees in exchange for virtually certain future profit, so that the extremely slight economic risk is disproportionately small compared to the tax gain. Fleischer argues that this is flat out illegal and concludes: "Mitt Romney has not paid all the taxes required under law." Not all experts agree. We can look forward to more argument on this issue in coming days. Even if it is legal, it is morally even less defensible than the carried interest loophole.

    In the end, we are still left with the fact that the tax system for the 1% is different from that for the rest of us. Whether Romney releases more tax returns or not, that issue is not going away. And the drip, drip, drip of new information makes me think he will eventually cave in.

    Read more: Lid Blowing Off Romney Tax Secrecy | Angry Bear - Financial and Economic Commentary

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