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Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?


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Obviously this question has been sparked by the whole voter ID debate. If there's no concern at all that voter fraud could even happen and it's completely unreasonable to expect someone to obtain a photo ID, couldn't the very same arguments be made against requiring people having to register to vote in the first place? Can I assume that if you oppose voter ID, you also oppose voter registration requirements?

Need a sec to get the poll up. Options will be simple; yes, no and I don't know.
 
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Absolutely not, although I want them to produce ID to vote too, so...
 
Of course it's not an "unreasonable intrusion". Not only should voters be expected to register, they should produce proof of citizenship as well. It's ludicrous to believe that anonymous people should be allowed to simply show up at a polling booth and demand a ballot.
 
Yes, I support voters requiring to register, and just one of many reasons is to limit abuse involved in it.

I'd rather see voting numbers drop instead of increase, as voting is more of a privilege than a right, in my opinion. I've seen some people who vote that just clearly lack the mental ability to know what to vote for.
 
No, it's not unreasonable, however, I also add that I live in a state (the only state) that does not have voter registration. We prefer it this way, it makes our lives easier, but I'm not sufficiently informed as to be able to say it is workable in more populated states, let alone popular among existing voters or legislators in many states.
 
Yes, I support voters requiring to register, and just one of many reasons is to limit abuse involved in it.

I'd rather see voting numbers drop instead of increase, as voting is more of a privilege than a right, in my opinion. I've seen some people who vote that just clearly lack the mental ability to know what to vote for.

I'm entirely fine with people having a right to vote, but with rights come responsibilities and if these people cannot be responsible enough to register and carry ID, they're too damn irresponsible to vote.
 
No, it's not unreasonable, however, I also add that I live in a state (the only state) that does not have voter registration. We prefer it this way, it makes our lives easier, but I'm not sufficiently informed as to be able to say it is workable in more populated states, let alone popular among existing voters or legislators in many states.

That's interesting Fiddy, how does that work?
 
It's pretty simple.

First, you discover your living area zone and where in the community you vote. When you show up, you stand in a line for your last name (A-K, L-Z or so), and they will tell you to pull our your driver's license or state ID (more on this in a minute). When you get up to the tables you hand in the ID and they will see if you show up on the records of previous voters. If you do not, they will take down the information on the ID: name, address, etc etc. and write it on the "new voter" spreadsheet. They hand you your ballot and tell you the instructions, especially during the primary season, and away you go. Now, I have voted in person at my home town before (usually during the summer elections), but during national elections I vote via absentee ballot (another relatively simple process through the net for me, but I do need to do it weeks in advance). However, because of that I suppose I was not on the record for having voted before, so they labeled me a new voter (meanwhile the entire family, including my much younger sister were already listed) and went through the quick process of writing down my information. No biggie, very common procedure. It took less than a couple of minutes from the time of the table to my ballot being in my hand.

Now, on the ID bit. Yes, they ask you for your ID in the lines. However, that seems more of a courtesy to you and the staff or simply more commonplace. You can also submit a utility bill that is dated 30 days prior to election or a change of address verification letter, and numerous other photo IDs.
 
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Yes, I support voters requiring to register, and just one of many reasons is to limit abuse involved in it.

I'd rather see voting numbers drop instead of increase, as voting is more of a privilege than a right, in my opinion. I've seen some people who vote that just clearly lack the mental ability to know what to vote for.

You're assuming that there is a correlation between political knowledge and willingness/ability to gain an ID. I'm not well versed on this topic (and consider myself neutral on it), but I don't see why this correlation would be true.
 
Obviously this question has been sparked by the whole voter ID debate. If there's no concern at all that voter fraud could even happen and it's completely unreasonable to expect someone to obtain a photo ID, couldn't the very same arguments be made against requiring people having to register to vote in the first place? Can I assume that if you oppose voter ID, you also oppose voter registration requirements?

Need a sec to get the poll up. Options will be simple; yes, no and I don't know.

Finally! A recent poll that presents options clearly and without prejudice!!

Yes, I'm an idiot and I think it's an unnecessary intrusion. -- Those kinds. Ha!
 
Actually, I forgot one part of this process of voting here. I haven't seen it in action but here you go.


"If an individual offering to vote does not have or refuses to show an appropriate form of identification, the individual may be allowed to vote without being challenged if a pollworker is able to vouch for the voter's identity and address. Otherwise, the individual may vote as a challenged voter by executing an affidavit that the challenged individual is a legally qualified elector of the precinct."-North Dakota
 
I'm not sure what purpose registration serves, other than simply to keep track of people. I do not know how necessary this is, what problems it solves, nor possibly alternatives that are less intrusive. Ergo, I do not know if it is reasonable or not. Requiring identification cards or other specific documents, on the other hand, solves no problems (or negligible ones at best) and imposes an apparently substantial restriction. But that is the test to see if a restriction is permitted. If I knew more about the reason why registration is required, and what kinds of situations take place in its absence, I'd be able to say if it is reasonable or not.

How exactly is showing ID supposed to stop fraud, anyway? Are poll workers supposed to be thoroughly checking everyone's documentation? Does no one realize how much longer voting will take, then? Requiring allocating more space and equipment for voting, and hiring more workers? Spending more of that precious tax money that so many are so worried about? Or will this simply be a check to make sure that the person does indeed look like the picture on the ID card? In which case, fooling such a system would be easy with a fake ID. This is the test that liquor stores, dance clubs, and bars impose, and fooling those types of establishments is the classic reason for getting a fake ID.

Even if the problem of people lying about their identities at the voting booth were a real problem, it doesn't seem like ID would solve it. Registration might be what solves it, since it determines where a person must show up and puts them on a list. The name is checked off when they show up. If more than one person arrives to vote under that name, it is investigated. Given the infrequency that in person deception during the voting process occurs, registration seems to be the solution to that problem. If it could be proven not to be necessary to keep voting problems from occurring, then of course we should not be doing it. Unnecessary infringements of liberty should all be done away with. That's what the Due Process clause protects us against.
 
Given the infrequency that in person deception during the voting process occurs, registration seems to be the solution to that problem. If it could be proven not to be necessary to keep voting problems from occurring, then of course we should not be doing it.

All is quiet on the western front for us. No problems have really been reported in regards to voter fraud without the voter registration. The ones who have been complaining have mostly been out-of-state Ron Paulites who are absolutely convinced they (again, not they, but rather the citizens of North Dakota, of which they are largely not) were the victims of voter fraud.
 
I'd like to hear an argument for why someone WOULDN'T want people to register AND present an id. That's not infringing on anyone's right to vote. It's maintaining the purity of everyone's privilege to vote. Giving out free ID's is a freebee that even I would have no issue with the gov't taxing me for. My favorite argument against voter ID laws and the like is the "voter fraud isn't a BIG enough problem to force this" argument. What? So, if a problem isn't really big, just ignore it? Last time I checked, that's why we have the fiscal issues we have now. Because Medicare/Social Security weren't BIG enough problems to address. Look where that got us.
 
I'd like to hear an argument for why someone WOULDN'T want people to register AND present an id.

Depends on your state. The 49 of you view it that way. We don't. We thought the lack of voter registration and presentation of photo ID, or utility bill, or change of address letter works well enough. Less mess for us, quick voting process, accurate results, and on par to high voter turnout (high voter turnout this summer, for instance).
 
I'd like to hear an argument for why someone WOULDN'T want people to register AND present an id. That's not infringing on anyone's right to vote. It's maintaining the purity of everyone's privilege to vote. Giving out free ID's is a freebee that even I would have no issue with the gov't taxing me for. My favorite argument against voter ID laws and the like is the "voter fraud isn't a BIG enough problem to force this" argument. What? So, if a problem isn't really big, just ignore it? Last time I checked, that's why we have the fiscal issues we have now. Because Medicare/Social Security weren't BIG enough problems to address. Look where that got us.

I could probably support voter ID laws, if it was not being done in the year or two leading up to a presidential election. Start the process right after the election and give the max time(and spend some money promoting the requirement and how to meet it) for people to learn and comply. Doing it in an election year smells like trying to affect outcome. The oither issue I have is that I know of no cases when voter fraud was prevelant enough to actually effect the outcome of an election, nor is it a significant possibility now. SO why rush into it?
 
i don't really have a problem with registration or ID, although i don't believe those pushing the ID laws are just doing it to prevent fraud.

my solution is this : every ten years when we do the census, you get a picture taken, which goes on your SS card. everyone has one, and it's free. problem solved.
 
Obviously this question has been sparked by the whole voter ID debate. If there's no concern at all that voter fraud could even happen and it's completely unreasonable to expect someone to obtain a photo ID, couldn't the very same arguments be made against requiring people having to register to vote in the first place? Can I assume that if you oppose voter ID, you also oppose voter registration requirements?

Need a sec to get the poll up. Options will be simple; yes, no and I don't know.

I voted no

but I base that on the premise that the IDs will be readily available and free.
Of course state drivers licenses and state IDs should be acceptable along with other IDs, photo gun licenses, pass ports etc.

But If a person doesnt have one of those the task should be super easy and free to obtain a vote ID card.

If its not then I would say yes it is pushing the limits
 
I could probably support voter ID laws, if it was not being done in the year or two leading up to a presidential election. Start the process right after the election and give the max time(and spend some money promoting the requirement and how to meet it) for people to learn and comply. Doing it in an election year smells like trying to affect outcome. The oither issue I have is that I know of no cases when voter fraud was prevelant enough to actually effect the outcome of an election, nor is it a significant possibility now. SO why rush into it?
Why wouldn't we want to affect the outcome? The affect is people that can legally vote proving they can legally vote. To be honest, and I know someone will take offense but whatever. I think one of the reasons for the big push for voter id laws is to counter President Obama's executive order regarding illlegal immigrants.
 
i don't really have a problem with registration or ID, although i don't believe those pushing the ID laws are just doing it to prevent fraud.

my solution is this : every ten years when we do the census, you get a picture taken, which goes on your SS card. everyone has one, and it's free. problem solved.

So what exactly are they pushing it for then, in your opinion?
 
Why wouldn't we want to affect the outcome? The affect is people that can legally vote proving they can legally vote. To be honest, and I know someone will take offense but whatever. I think one of the reasons for the big push for voter id laws is to counter President Obama's executive order regarding illlegal immigrants.

There is no evidence that voter fraud has ever effected a presidential election. However, many people who are legally able to vote won't be able to due to voter ID laws assuming passage(how many is many is unknown of course, but potentially enough to affect the outcome). While the idea itself has merit, doing it to try and tilt the outcome to the advantage of those making the laws, which is how this appears, is something to avoid. There is zero reason to suspect fraud will affect the outcome, but these laws have that potential.
 
There is no evidence that voter fraud has ever effected a presidential election. However, many people who are legally able to vote won't be able to due to voter ID laws assuming passage(how many is many is unknown of course, but potentially enough to affect the outcome). While the idea itself has merit, doing it to try and tilt the outcome to the advantage of those making the laws, which is how this appears, is something to avoid. There is zero reason to suspect fraud will affect the outcome, but these laws have that potential.
You are engaging in the same argument as I am, just on the opposite side. You readily admit that the amount of people that can legally vote but would not due to not having an id is unknown. I admit that no one knows if voter fraud is definitely occuring. However, the fact is that only citizens are allowed to vote and citizens can only vote one time per political office. So why not follow the law instead of try to avoid it for the few who are too lazy to get up and get an id? I believe that we can agree that if someone is too lazy to get up and get an id they are probably too lazy to get up and go vote.
 
You are engaging in the same argument as I am, just on the opposite side. You readily admit that the amount of people that can legally vote but would not due to not having an id is unknown. I admit that no one knows if voter fraud is definitely occuring. However, the fact is that only citizens are allowed to vote and citizens can only vote one time per political office. So why not follow the law instead of try to avoid it for the few who are too lazy to get up and get an id? I believe that we can agree that if someone is too lazy to get up and get an id they are probably too lazy to get up and go vote.

Who said anything about not following the law? I certainly didn't. My grandmother did not have an ID the last few years of her life. Didn't need one, didn't have access to get one and with the dificulty in getting a new ID card these days, was not worth it to her. If she tried to vote, would she be following the law? Was she lazy in her wheelchair?

We do not have ambition requirements to vote and shouldn't. Complaining about lazy people is not going to make your argument. If voter ID laws are a good idea, why not wait till next year(or 3 years ago) when it is not as likely to affect a presidential election.
 
So what exactly are they pushing it for then, in your opinion?

because many of the voters who the laws affect would probably vote democrat. that's part of the reason republicans push these laws.
 
Who said anything about not following the law? I certainly didn't. My grandmother did not have an ID the last few years of her life. Didn't need one, didn't have access to get one and with the dificulty in getting a new ID card these days, was not worth it to her. If she tried to vote, would she be following the law? Was she lazy in her wheelchair?

We do not have ambition requirements to vote and shouldn't. Complaining about lazy people is not going to make your argument. If voter ID laws are a good idea, why not wait till next year(or 3 years ago) when it is not as likely to affect a presidential election.
Agreed, we don't have ambition requirements and I never said we did or should. However, your argument is the same as mine in that you are basing your opinion off of a guess. That is, the guess of how many people wouldn't be able to vote due to not having an id card versus the guess that voter fraud is occurring due to a lack of id laws. The difference is that the law is on the side of my guess while a mere feeling is on yours. The law states that a person must be a citizen and can only vote once for each race. No law states everyone should vote. It simply says they can if they want. And if they want too, they have to go get an id card, if I had my way.
Also, if your grandma can wait in line to vote, she can wait in line for an id card. The line wouldn't be that long. Most people have a drivers license.
 
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