View Poll Results: Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

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Thread: Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

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    Re: Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

    Useless poll. I got a notice in the mail that I am no longer allowed to park my car half-on-our-driveway and half-on-our-lawn. Is that an unreasonable intrusion? No, but it's stupid and annoying and it doesn't do anybody good. The question isn't whether or not we should unreasonably intrude on the lives of citizens, the question is whether or not our policies are beneficial, efficient and cost effective.

    When I attended my local GOP caucus earlier this year, there was one candidate who insisted that we needed to improve our voting system and "make it easier for people to vote." He then explained that we would accomplish this by requiring voters to show ID on election day. What a dishonest jerk face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    I'd rather see voting numbers drop instead of increase, as voting is more of a privilege than a right, in my opinion. I've seen some people who vote that just clearly lack the mental ability to know what to vote for.
    Well at least some of you are honest. The GOP has been lobbying for the ID requirement for years and it's got nothing to do with making anybody's life easier. Somebody said we have no way of knowing whether or not voter fraud is taking place. That's not true at all. Voter fraud is illegal, it almost never happens, and despite what the Gipper opined, voting is what separates free nations from those controlled by dictators. Any attempt to prevent citizens from voting is repulsive and if you think that voters aren't sufficiently informed, then go out there and volunteer for a campaign or do something to educate people.

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    Re: Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    what? there have been hundreds demonstrated in just the election that won it for Al Franken alone.
    In person voter fraud? Just curious.
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    Re: Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    In person voter fraud? Just curious.
    Yeah. Turns out hundreds of felons came out to vote for ole Al. Since he won by only a few hundred votes, it makes it an interesting question as to whether or not we currently have a sitting Senator who did not actually win his seat.

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    Re: Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

    I still haven't heard a logical argument against an ID requirement. Only the typical feelings/idealogue argument that the left always produces. With over 12 million illegal immigrants in our country, we should all want to ensure non-felon Americans are the only people voting. I find the "discriminating against the poor" argument hilarious. 1) The "poor" are more than likely on welfare, which requires an ID. 2) What does being poor have to do with getting a free ID? 3) If they can't get transportation to get an ID, what makes people think they'll get transportation to go vote? Its all ridiculous. I sincerely believe the left is scared of what would happen if illegal immigrants were prevented from voting. It's a well known fact that the Hispanic vote is going President Obama's way. He solidified that when he issued his executive order. The Hispanic vote will continue to go to Dems simply because they want to provide amnesty, their ilk provides the "sanctuary" cities, and they spew forth the rhetoric that the GOP hates immigrants. I will concede that the GOP doesn't help itself when they go around screaming about self-deportation with no proposal to fix immigration.
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    Re: Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yeah. Turns out hundreds of felons came out to vote for ole Al. Since he won by only a few hundred votes, it makes it an interesting question as to whether or not we currently have a sitting Senator who did not actually win his seat.
    Al Franken. Who would have thought when Stuart Smalley came on, we were looking at a future leader of Americans.
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    Re: Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Obviously this question has been sparked by the whole voter ID debate. If there's no concern at all that voter fraud could even happen and it's completely unreasonable to expect someone to obtain a photo ID, couldn't the very same arguments be made against requiring people having to register to vote in the first place? Can I assume that if you oppose voter ID, you also oppose voter registration requirements?

    Need a sec to get the poll up. Options will be simple; yes, no and I don't know.
    Your post is based on false premises. First of all, who claimed that "there's no concern at all that voter fraud could even happen"? There's evidence that most frauds happen at the registration stage and through absentee ballots, which voter ID would not prevent. There are very few cases of in person fraud, so if it's a big problem it somehow slips by the people who look for these things. Nor would Voter ID prevents it from happening. It's quite easy to get a fake ID (I know this from my 19 years old college classmate) and if a person were to go to the trouble of committing voting fraud, why not get a fake ID as well?

    So no, you shouldn't assume that those who oppose voter ID, also oppose voter registration requirements. In fact, people who are really serious about preventing electoral fraud ought to be more vigilant about voter registration. If José, the illegal immigrant from Mexico, manages to register himself to vote, why wouldn't he be able to get a fake ID? Voter ID law wouldn't have prevented me from voting if I got pass the registration stage, I had a valid state issued ID despite being a visitor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I still haven't heard a logical argument against an ID requirement. Only the typical feelings/idealogue argument that the left always produces.
    That's because you refuse to hear, but instead goes on to call them "ideologue" because of your ideology.

    The arguements are always there: there's little evidence that in person voter fraud is a problem (it's registration and absentee ballots that have most evidence of fraud), the voter ID solution would not solve the problem.

    With over 12 million illegal immigrants in our country, we should all want to ensure non-felon Americans are the only people voting. I find the "discriminating against the poor" argument hilarious. 1) The "poor" are more than likely on welfare, which requires an ID.
    So you assume. There are those who aren't and who doesn't have an ID, why don't you include them in your consideration?

    2) What does being poor have to do with getting a free ID?
    It doesn't. It has something to do with who they are likely to vote for.


    3) If they can't get transportation to get an ID, what makes people think they'll get transportation to go vote?
    Because of the election drive from churches and neighborhoods, they provide the bus service during the election period and then there are those who can walk to the voting station but need to go further to get a license (like my current situation). You might say: why can't those same churches and neighbourhood provide them with the transportation to get the license. Answer: the places that provide licenses don't usually open on Sunday, and they shouldn't be burdened with further expense by the states without good reasons.


    Its all ridiculous. I sincerely believe the left is scared of what would happen if illegal immigrants were prevented from voting. It's a well known fact that the Hispanic vote is going President Obama's way. He solidified that when he issued his executive order. The Hispanic vote will continue to go to Dems simply because they want to provide amnesty, their ilk provides the "sanctuary" cities, and they spew forth the rhetoric that the GOP hates immigrants. I will concede that the GOP doesn't help itself when they go around screaming about self-deportation with no proposal to fix immigration.
    If you want to stop illegal immigrants from voting, look to voter registration, their names shouldn't be on the voter roll, if it is, then getting a fake ID is not that difficult. If they managed to register falsely in another person's name, again, getting a fake ID is the easy part. The problem with the Republican arguement is that is doesn't address the problem and shows their hypocrisy. They don't want to restrict voter registration too much and make absentee ballot too strict, as that might push their own voting base away with the people who shouldn't be voting, so they hone in what they feel will disadvantage their opponent instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Yeah. Turns out hundreds of felons came out to vote for ole Al. Since he won by only a few hundred votes, it makes it an interesting question as to whether or not we currently have a sitting Senator who did not actually win his seat.

    Link? Did these felons all used names of other people who were legally registered to vote? How did they get those names?
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

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    Re: Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Yes, I support voters requiring to register, and just one of many reasons is to limit abuse involved in it.

    I'd rather see voting numbers drop instead of increase, as voting is more of a privilege than a right, in my opinion. I've seen some people who vote that just clearly lack the mental ability to know what to vote for.
    I see you're a Libertarian, favoring minimally regulated government, that is advocating more rules on voting. I guess you see a big problem that needs to be corrected by more government regulation. What is that problem that you have detected? It's clear that you’re advocating something like an IQ test to vote. I wonder if I'd pass.

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    Re: Is Requiring Voters to Register an Unreasonable Intrusion on the Right to Vote?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Obviously this question has been sparked by the whole voter ID debate. If there's no concern at all that voter fraud could even happen and it's completely unreasonable to expect someone to obtain a photo ID, couldn't the very same arguments be made against requiring people having to register to vote in the first place? Can I assume that if you oppose voter ID, you also oppose voter registration requirements?

    Need a sec to get the poll up. Options will be simple; yes, no and I don't know.
    Interesting perspective on this issue. Thank you for asking the question.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    It's pretty simple.

    First, you discover your living area zone and where in the community you vote. When you show up, you stand in a line for your last name (A-K, L-Z or so), and they will tell you to pull our your driver's license or state ID (more on this in a minute). When you get up to the tables you hand in the ID and they will see if you show up on the records of previous voters. If you do not, they will take down the information on the ID: name, address, etc etc. and write it on the "new voter" spreadsheet. They hand you your ballot and tell you the instructions, especially during the primary season, and away you go. Now, I have voted in person at my home town before (usually during the summer elections), but during national elections I vote via absentee ballot (another relatively simple process through the net for me, but I do need to do it weeks in advance). However, because of that I suppose I was not on the record for having voted before, so they labeled me a new voter (meanwhile the entire family, including my much younger sister were already listed) and went through the quick process of writing down my information. No biggie, very common procedure. It took less than a couple of minutes from the time of the table to my ballot being in my hand.

    Now, on the ID bit. Yes, they ask you for your ID in the lines. However, that seems more of a courtesy to you and the staff or simply more commonplace. You can also submit a utility bill that is dated 30 days prior to election or a change of address verification letter, and numerous other photo IDs.
    It might be my reflexive black helicopter paranoia, but that concerns me more than anything else. I'm not sure I want them keeping track of what people have done in the past, even if it's only simply whether they voted or not.

    I have heard stories of government workers being confronted by their bosses for not voting Democrat... in Illinois, and certainly unverified... when nobody should have known. Part of me says it's BS, part of me knows that sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    who says that the elderly and the handicapped cannot get ID's?
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No one. It is however more likely they will not have IDs, and it is harder for them to get out and attain one.
    It is harder for some, primarily older and/or rural, people to get ID's, I understand that. But, if we as a society are honest about simply not allowing fraud, then we can put in a reasonable process to allow for this.


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AreteCourage View Post
    I'm fine with showing my driver's license to prove I am who I say I am.

    However, these new laws coming in on an election year is OBVIOUSLY an attempt to swing the vote. Voting is a right no matter how much one person thinks it should be a privilege. It isn't a privilege that should be taken away from anyone. It is a right for all citizens in this nation.

    Since 2000, there have only been 10 recorded cases of voter fraud in the country. T-E-N!

    We should not enact any laws like this until January 2013. That would be the best option as it would take away the obvious control that bureaucrats are trying to take.
    what? there have been hundreds demonstrated in just the election that won it for Al Franken alone.
    Too many people make the mistake, intentionally I believe, of limiting the potential of voter fraud to only those that have been prosecuted and punished. If not outright dishonest, it's at the very least simply naive. It's a dishonest attempt to paint the other side as being wrong by saying, "But you can only prove 'X'.", when in fact any reasonable thinking person that no crime ever gets even close to being 100% prosecuted. And voter fraud would be way down the list of priorities when compared to thinks like robbery, rape, murder, etc.

    Phrases like "vote early, vote often" aren't clever SNL skit slogans, ya know. Their are multitudes of dishonest people in the world, and the notion that they will all somehow be pure and honest regarding elections is supreme denial.


    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    I still haven't heard a logical argument against an ID requirement. Only the typical feelings/idealogue argument that the left always produces. With over 12 million illegal immigrants in our country, we should all want to ensure non-felon Americans are the only people voting. I find the "discriminating against the poor" argument hilarious. 1) The "poor" are more than likely on welfare, which requires an ID. 2) What does being poor have to do with getting a free ID? 3) If they can't get transportation to get an ID, what makes people think they'll get transportation to go vote? Its all ridiculous. I sincerely believe the left is scared of what would happen if illegal immigrants were prevented from voting. It's a well known fact that the Hispanic vote is going President Obama's way. He solidified that when he issued his executive order. The Hispanic vote will continue to go to Dems simply because they want to provide amnesty, their ilk provides the "sanctuary" cities, and they spew forth the rhetoric that the GOP hates immigrants. I will concede that the GOP doesn't help itself when they go around screaming about self-deportation with no proposal to fix immigration.
    I will concede that I believe that the core intent... currently... of most Republicans and Conservatives who are really pushing for ID requirements is indeed voter suppression. And I do oppose the more "creative" attempts that some places are doing, i.e.; criminalizing voter sign-up drives, disparate voting hours between districts, unreasonable limitations of what qualifies as an ID, and so on. But, just because some of the current motivation is dishonest, doesn't mean that insuring that voters are citizens in and of itself is a bad idea. Voting should be viewed as one of the most sacrosanct activities in our republic and should be fiercely guarded.

    I liked the idea that someone else touched on regarding timing. I would be fine with saying any voter ID requirement would not go in effect until 5 years after it is passed. Five years is plenty of time for anybody to get an ID, regardless how old they are, what their birth situation was, and how far they live from a DMV or other similar place. It would also be beyond the next election, so that motivation would be removed.
    Last edited by radcen; 08-18-12 at 11:50 AM.
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