View Poll Results: Should we fault Romney if he paid 0% taxes? Is the fair tax better than current?

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  • Yes fault him. Yes Fair tax is better

    3 15.00%
  • Yes fault him. No Fair tax is worse

    4 20.00%
  • Don't fault him. Yes Fair tax is better

    10 50.00%
  • Don't fault him. No Fair tax is worse

    3 15.00%
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Thread: Let's assume Romney paid 0% income tax

  1. #11
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    Re: Let's assume Romney paid 0% income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The argument advanced is that if we tax the rich less, it will come back to us. Is that a "completely separate issue" than Romney, a rich person, paying zero tax legally? No, it is not. Please don't obfuscate the issue.
    Regardless it is a separate issue. The issue I am discussing is whether or not we should fault Romney for taking advantage of the corrupt system to pay 0% income tax. Not how paying 0% would (or wouldn't) hypothetically affect unemployment. Yes, you're right that that point could be made, if he did actually pay 0%. But is disproving the GOP's argument that "lower taxes creates lower unemployment" a reason to fault Romney for having paying 0% taxes? I'm not sure what your point has to do with this topic yet.

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    Re: Let's assume Romney paid 0% income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertzz View Post
    Regardless it is a separate issue. The issue I am discussing is whether or not we should fault Romney for taking advantage of the corrupt system to pay 0% income tax. Not how paying 0% would (or wouldn't) hypothetically affect unemployment. Yes, you're right that that point could be made, if he did actually pay 0%. But is disproving the GOP's argument that "lower taxes creates lower unemployment" a reason to fault Romney for having paying 0% taxes? I'm not sure what your point has to do with this topic yet.
    Yes, because that is their line. This is what they spout off. "Make us pay less, you'll get more jobs and blah!". But if we allowed them a way to pay less, nothing even, and that were not true then they had just stolen a bunch of money from us and lied all the way to the bank. It'd be like Scientology at that point. I blame scamers for the scams.
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    Re: Let's assume Romney paid 0% income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, because that is their line. This is what they spout off. "Make us pay less, you'll get more jobs and blah!". But if we allowed them a way to pay less, nothing even, and that were not true then they had just stolen a bunch of money from us and lied all the way to the bank. It'd be like Scientology at that point. I blame scamers for the scams.
    ahhh, I see - I was so engrossed in the thought-track of whether or not he was 'morally' wrong if he did legally pay 0%... I see what you are saying now. Thank you for taking time to clarify. You would fault him, not for paying 0% taxes then, but for claiming to hold political ideals that would be 'best for all' that he knows to be false.

    I hadn't considered that at all - thanks!
    Last edited by fredmertzz; 08-17-12 at 04:10 PM.

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    Re: Let's assume Romney paid 0% income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, because that is their line. This is what they spout off. "Make us pay less, you'll get more jobs and blah!". But if we allowed them a way to pay less, nothing even, and that were not true then they had just stolen a bunch of money from us and lied all the way to the bank. It'd be like Scientology at that point. I blame scamers for the scams.
    trickle down economics explained in one easy graphic :

    Let's assume Romney paid 0% income tax-cap125-jpg

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    Re: Let's assume Romney paid 0% income tax

    I'd love to see a tax code more akin to Sweden. Take a look:

    Sweden Tax Rates


    An individual's income is divided into 3 categories: business income, employment income and capital income. The average municipal tax rate is approximately 31.56% and is levied on total taxable employment income less a personal allowance. A basic national income tax of 20% is levied on taxable income exceeding SEK 372,100 (for 2010). A higher national tax of 25% is levied on taxable income in excess of SEK 532,700 (for 2010). In total, a maximum rate of approximately 57.77% is levied on average. Business income is taxed at the same rate as employment income. Dividend and interest income are taxed at a flat rate of 30%.
    Last edited by OnWisconsin; 08-17-12 at 04:25 PM.
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    Re: Let's assume Romney paid 0% income tax

    My opinion:

    While Romney would obviously be at fault (he did choose to pay such low taxes), it shouldn't (directly) harm his chances of being elected, which is (I assumed when I answered the poll) what you meant by "fault".

    Votes should be cast based on what voters think each candidate will do (or not do) in office. This doesn't mean we should take what they say at face value (Romney's flip-flopping on issues probably should hurt him, because it means he likely won't be sincere to his present day promises), but his refusal to pay higher taxes than are demanded of him? No (though if it turned out he evaded taxes, that should harm his ethos).

    The capability of the wealthy to pay lower taxes is an issue of political debate that should be separate from Romney's personal taxes. Making Romney (sample size = 1) your poll for the wealthy's tax returns is idiotic, as is trying to attach such a statistic to Romney for personal reasons (though Romney's tax proposal should have to answer to such arguments). Of course, Romney's separation from his own statistic is based on the assumption that he legally paid low rates (as mentioned above).
    Last edited by evangambit; 08-20-12 at 12:00 AM. Reason: clarified paragraph
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    Re: Let's assume Romney paid 0% income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertzz View Post
    Let's assume Romney releases his returns willingly and shows that he paid 0% income tax.

    There are two scenarios that this happened: legally or illegally. If done illegally, then obviously his run is over, so there is no debate to be had there.

    But if it was done legally, which is the point the democrats are REALLY trying to imply (or flat out accuse), is this a negative on Romney?

    He followed the law and managed the laws in the most efficient and cost-effective manner. These seem like positive character traits to me. It also seems like a TERRIBLY broken system. But I wouldn't fault Romney for the system being broken.

    Which leads to a second question - Wouldn't a fair tax be preferable over this so-easily broken system that we have? The rich would pay much more in taxes and you guarantee their tax rate won't be less than that of the middle-class. Even if you think they ought to pay more percentage (which is debatable) - the system becomes corrupt far too easily under the current IRS-Based structure - how is THIS better?

    So the question is (not if it would hurt him politically), if Romney paid 0% in taxes, should we fault him for it? Is the 'fair tax' a better system?
    Romney cannot be faulted no matter WHAT percentage he paid...as long as he followed the law.

    But, you see, none of that matters. The Democrats don't care what percentage he paid...except insofar as they can spin such percentage into the impression that "he's rich...he paid less taxes than you did". But I don't even think they are counting on being able to do that. They'd rather see HOW he earned his money. THAT would give them more opportunities to spin things in their favor.

    Oh, and sorry...I won't comment on your flat tax question. It doesn't conform to the topic of this post as expressed by your thread title.
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    Re: Let's assume Romney paid 0% income tax

    If he legally paid no taxes, it is a symptom of a broken system. We should fault him for campaigning to break it further.

    **** the flat tax and regressive tax pushing assholes that want to further break the economy by funneling money away from those with the greatest propensity to consumer spending to those with the least.

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    Re: Let's assume Romney paid 0% income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    2. a thirty percent sales tax isn't a solution to anything, and is a non-starter.
    15% consumption tax. 10% to the state, 5% to the fed-gov. Exempt food. Make it illegal for government to spend more than it receives in revenue.

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    Re: Let's assume Romney paid 0% income tax

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordent View Post
    15% consumption tax. 10% to the state, 5% to the fed-gov. Exempt food. Make it illegal for government to spend more than it receives in revenue.
    Sounds good...except for the highlighted part. That would require an amendment which I don't think will ever happen. At least not in my lifetime.
    TANSTAAFL

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