View Poll Results: Is the United States a dystopia?

Voters
28. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    4 14.29%
  • No

    19 67.86%
  • Almost

    5 17.86%
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 21

Thread: Is the United States a dystopia?

  1. #11
    Magic!

    Cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    24,527

    Re: Is the United States a dystopia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Clearly you don't understand what a dystopia is if you think the United States is one. It's not defined as "a country with more social and/or economic problems than Finland."
    Well, at least you got that I was saying we were a dystopia in comparison to Finland this time, rather than thinking I was claiming that Finland is a dystopia. Anyway, let's break out the ol Merriam Webster, shall we?

    Ahem.

    dys·to·pia
    noun \(ˌ)dis-ˈtō-pē-ə\
    1
    : an imaginary place where people lead dehumanized and often fearful lives in comparison to Finland.
    2
    : anti-utopia 2

    Seriously, though, besides my little addition there that definition was real. If you look at the American legal system, with plea bargaining, the near omnipotent powers granted to the police in the drug war and the growing powers of the government in the War on Terror you stand a better odds with major surgery than with being caught up in the American legal system. Also, corporatism, pollution and corruption simply isn't the problem in Finland that it is here. So compared to Finland? We're definitely more dystopic.

    But you're not really reading my posts, so you probably got from the above that "we're a worse dystopian country than North Korea."

  2. #12
    Black Is Smart
    Van Basten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    The New New Frontier
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    4,081

    Re: Is the United States a dystopia?

    If the US is a dystopia, then pretty much the whole world's a dystopia.

    In all seriousness, it's not. A dystopian society is an awful place through and through. I enjoy living in America and there plenty of other people that do, to call it "dystopia" is taking it way too far. The definition thereof doesn't fit the US at all.
    "I am not among those who fear the people. They and not the rich, are our dependence for continued freedom." -- Thomas Jefferson, 1816 "[F]acts are before ideas." -- Mikhail Bakunin, 1882

  3. #13
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 06:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: Is the United States a dystopia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Well, at least you got that I was saying we were a dystopia in comparison to Finland this time, rather than thinking I was claiming that Finland is a dystopia. Anyway, let's break out the ol Merriam Webster, shall we?

    Ahem.

    dys·to·pia
    noun \(ˌ)dis-ˈtō-pē-ə\
    1
    : an imaginary place where people lead dehumanized and often fearful lives in comparison to Finland.
    2
    : anti-utopia 2

    Seriously, though, besides my little addition there that definition was real. If you look at the American legal system, with plea bargaining, the near omnipotent powers granted to the police in the drug war and the growing powers of the government in the War on Terror you stand a better odds with major surgery than with being caught up in the American legal system. Also, corporatism, pollution and corruption simply isn't the problem
    Yeah, every country has problems. **** happens. That doesn't make it a dystopia.

    So compared to Finland? We're definitely more dystopic.
    "Dystopia" has a specific meaning, and you don't normally characterize extreme words like that by comparing two examples which neither bear any resemblance to the word. That would be as silly as saying that Ghana is more of a utopia than Zimbabwe.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 08-16-12 at 09:17 PM.
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  4. #14
    Magic!

    Cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    24,527

    Re: Is the United States a dystopia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Yeah, every country has problems. **** happens.
    Seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That doesn't make it a dystopia.

    "Dystopia" has a specific meaning, and you don't normally characterize extreme words like that by comparing two examples which neither bear any resemblance to the word. That would be as silly as saying that Ghana is more of a utopia than Zimbabwe.
    There's no absolutist definition that says, "Okay, your country has x number of terrified citizens, x number of polluted lakes, and government torture is legal in over 60% of criminal cases. Congratulations! You qualify for dystopia!" Its definition is made up of entirely subjective qualifiers.

  5. #15
    Magic!

    Cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    24,527

    Re: Is the United States a dystopia?

    By the way, why don't you read up on the Finnish legal and penal system (here's a peek at the latter) and tell me that in comparison to this America's far reaching rights to search and arrest you, plea bargaining, and de facto state and society sanctioned prison rape (in addition to the fact that if you're ever incarcerated you're never allowed to vote ever again), that America's legal system isn't ****ing terrifying and thus deserving of comparatively dystopian status.

    But no, you're right. North Korea is worse. So, you know, go us.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-16-12 at 09:38 PM.

  6. #16
    User
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    09-17-12 @ 11:52 PM
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20

    Re: Is the United States a dystopia?

    I'd say it's not an out and out dystopia... but it's not the utopia it makes itself out to be sometimes. Sometimes it feels like the country is a starlet who has let her own press releases go to her head... then she looks in a mirror and freaks out that her face isn't as Photoshop smooth as it is in the magazines. We seem to freak out a lot.

  7. #17
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    ExecuteTheTraitors
    Last Seen
    11-23-12 @ 11:17 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,574

    Re: Is the United States a dystopia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    By the way, why don't you read up on the Finnish legal and penal system (here's a peek at the latter) and tell me that in comparison to this America's far reaching rights to search and arrest you, plea bargaining, and de facto state and society sanctioned prison rape (in addition to the fact that if you're ever incarcerated you're never allowed to vote ever again), that America's legal system isn't ****ing terrifying and thus deserving of comparatively dystopian status.

    But no, you're right. North Korea is worse. So, you know, go us.
    Finland isn't a balkanized collection of squabbling ethnicities, religions, and creeds. Finland is a nation-state of people content to live together, and Finland's borders follow the "natural map". The Natural Map of the Middle East
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

    Death to Globalists

  8. #18
    Student evangambit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    09-20-12 @ 05:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    159

    Re: Is the United States a dystopia?

    If dystopia is relative, we're certainly not a dystopia (things can certainly get much worse). With many Americans living in an air-conditioned house, not starving, with internet access and enough wealth to be considered a small fortune in dozens of countries, we're not exactly on the verge of becoming a dystopia .

    Sure, our legal system could be considered ineffectual, we're heavily in debt, etc. but has the government:
    a) broken down into anarchy and led to the collapse of the economy, wide-spread starvation, and the dominance of crime?
    or
    b) established an iron grip and maintained absolute control of our lives?

    If we're being honest with ourselves, we're, by and large, living the high-life, with, compared to many countries and nearly every time period, a fairly decent balance of government control. I recall the typical "would you rather be a king in the middle ages or a middle class citizen in America, today" and the common answer: a long pregnant pause, and the admittance: "middle class citizen in America, today.'
    "In the long run, a hierarchical society [is] only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance." - George Orwell

  9. #19
    Magic!

    Cardinal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    24,527

    Re: Is the United States a dystopia?

    Quote Originally Posted by evangambit View Post
    If dystopia is relative, we're certainly not a dystopia (things can certainly get much worse). With many Americans living in an air-conditioned house, not starving, with internet access and enough wealth to be considered a small fortune in dozens of countries, we're not exactly on the verge of becoming a dystopia .

    Sure, our legal system could be considered ineffectual, we're heavily in debt, etc. but has the government:
    a) broken down into anarchy and led to the collapse of the economy, wide-spread starvation, and the dominance of crime?
    or
    b) established an iron grip and maintained absolute control of our lives?

    If we're being honest with ourselves, we're, by and large, living the high-life, with, compared to many countries and nearly every time period, a fairly decent balance of government control. I recall the typical "would you rather be a king in the middle ages or a middle class citizen in America, today" and the common answer: a long pregnant pause, and the admittance: "middle class citizen in America, today.'
    When gauging how far I've come in my career, is it more informative to use a)other people in the same field I work in, or b)homeless people? Going by the former you can point to specific benchmarks I have and haven't achieved. Going by the latter, I'll always be a fantastic success, because hey, I'm not homeless.

    Comparing myself to a homeless person is a great way to be thankful for what I have in life and for the tragedies I've avoided, but it doesn't provide for concrete ways to strive and improve myself. This is why I find comparing the United States to wartorn or completely despotic areas like North Korea pointless except as a means of helping us to avoid looking at ways we could improve. It also conveniently helps us to avoid comparing ourselves to countries that are clearly better in several areas.

  10. #20
    Student evangambit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    09-20-12 @ 05:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    159

    Re: Is the United States a dystopia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    When gauging how far I've come in my career, is it more informative to use a)other people in the same field I work in, or b)homeless people? Going by the former you can point to specific benchmarks I have and haven't achieved. Going by the latter, I'll always be a fantastic success, because hey, I'm not homeless.

    Comparing myself to a homeless person is a great way to be thankful for what I have in life and for the tragedies I've avoided, but it doesn't provide for concrete ways to strive and improve myself. This is why I find comparing the United States to wartorn or completely despotic areas like North Korea pointless except as a means of helping us to avoid looking at ways we could improve. It also conveniently helps us to avoid comparing ourselves to countries that are clearly better in several areas.
    I always thought that the term "dystopia" was an absolute term.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal's Dictionary
    an imaginary place where people lead dehumanized and often fearful lives
    As an imaginary place, it is irrelevant what other countries or time periods are like. When I called upon such examples, it was to point out that I haven't heard anyone call, say, Feudal Europe a dystopia, and it is clear that we live in a markedly better society (in almost every way) compared to Feudal Europe.

    Nonetheless, comparing the United States to a country that could possibly be a "dystopia" seems to make more sense than comparing it to a country that is similar, as dystopia-ism isn't relative. If scarcity didn't exist, dystopias probably wouldn't exist, yet, by your criteria, it seems that dystopias would exist, because some countries are always going to be better than others. I don't the term "dystopia" is relative, but rather absolute (or as absolute as a word can be, since it is all interpretive anyway xD)

    Edit: an analogy might be this:
    When seeing if GREEN is RED, you don't compare GREEN to BLUE to see which one is closer to red. You compare GREEN to RED directly.
    Last edited by evangambit; 08-20-12 at 09:17 AM.
    "In the long run, a hierarchical society [is] only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance." - George Orwell

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •