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Thread: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

  1. #71
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Interesting connection. I think you are on to something. Both authors wrote in ways that glossed over the logical problems in their proposed ideologies, and lead people to over-estimate the plausibility of the systems involved.
    You can say the same thing about Karl Marx. You can say the same thing about Jesus.
    To the extent that there is a "connection" it is trivial.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 08-16-12 at 11:51 AM.

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You can say the same thing about Kall Marx. You can say the same thing about Jesus.
    Marx, yes, Jesus no. Jesus didn't write any part of the bible. I would say it about Paul, Mark, Luke, John, et al., though.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Marx, yes, Jesus no. Jesus didn't write any part of the bible. I would say it about Paul, Mark, Luke, John, et al., though.
    The "red letters" are the Jesus words. He did have a hand in it, you know.

    And you are frankly wrong in your assessment of Scientology. Hubbard never "glossed over" anything.

    They have nothing to do with each other. One is the founder of a philosophy, the other is the prophet of religion. When a person bashes Hubbard and Scientology, it is no better than the ignorant, hateful people who bash Muhammed and Islam.

    You see an "interesting connection" where the only connection is you prejudice against these two completely disparate things. The only connection is that you happen to not like them.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 08-16-12 at 11:58 AM.

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by SeekingWisdom View Post
    Agreed. Milton Freedman (not an Objectivist, as far as I know, but with similar ideas); Alan Greenspan, Paul Ryan, among others, but epecially - Ronald Reagan (also not truly an Objectivist) who, with is erroneous characterization of the "welfare queen" did more to damage our country than any other single person. With this one statement, many of the ideals of our Founding Fathers, especially the ideal of General Welfare, have been seriously damaged. The theme continues with many of today's Republicans. The wage-gap, that is, the theft of the income of the working 99% by the wealthy and, especially, by the corporations, is only one symptom. Capitalism does work, but primarily for the 1%. Don't misunderstand - I beleive in the American Dream - that everyone should have the opportunity to succeed. But wouldn't it be nice if everyone played by the same rules? Wouldn't it be nice if the 'game' weren't rigged for the corporations?
    But it's not about uneven distribution, it's about not distributing enough to people with talent. The wage gap that I am most against is the typical distribution where an inventor got a $30,000 bonus and his corporate Masters got $300,000,000 for the patent that wouldn't have existed without him. Just like the workers, the investors were only secondary factors in creating that wealth. The Investor Inferiority objective of homo erectus is achieved if this point is ignored and opposition to Rand is only focused on giving lower-class moochers more of the wealth created by homo sapiens.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Much like Rand, I prefer a society of self-sufficient people as opposed to a society that would attempt to force self-sufficient people to bend to it's will for the purpose of conformity. In short, I find the "government" of Rand's novels to be much greedier that the independent people...with the added despicable actions of enacting stupid, short-sighted laws.
    How can you advocate "do it on your own" and still accept unearned and dependent birth privileges such as inheritance, trust funds, and living off a large allowance in college? As with many cults, saying they support something allows them to define what is included in that slogan, even if contradicting it. The capitalists are also totally dependent on their workers, especially the inventive workers. They are a parasitic private government that Rand wants us to be believe we are dependent upon and therefore must conform to all its self-indulgent demands. Claiming that the rich create jobs is like saying that vampires create blood.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

  6. #76
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The "red letters" are the Jesus words. He did have a hand in it, you know.

    And you are frankly wrong in your assessment of Scientology. Hubbard never "glossed over" anything.

    They have nothing to do with each other. One is the founder of a philosophy, the other is the prophet of religion. When a person bashes Hubbard and Scientology, it is no better than the ignorant, hateful people who bash Muhammed and Islam.

    You see an "interesting connection" where the only connection is you prejudice against these two completely disparate things. The only connection is that you happen to not like them.
    No. Red letters mean he is directly attributed to saying it, not writing it.

    You can't say the same about the authors of the Bible because #1 Way to many of em, lol. #2 The Bible is assembled from many other writings. It was literally not written, but built.

    Scientology is a scam to make money, that's it. It was created by a science fiction writer for the sole purpose of making money.

    "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion." - L Ron Hubbard
    Last edited by Black Dog; 08-16-12 at 01:38 PM.
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  7. #77
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by PrometheusBound View Post
    How can you advocate "do it on your own" and still accept unearned and dependent birth privileges such as inheritance, trust funds, and living off a large allowance in college?
    I can accept them because I don't demand "do it on your own". There is room enough for all in this society. I cannot, however, accept "do it our way or else".
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    The "red letters" are the Jesus words. He did have a hand in it, you know.
    They are the parts that the author's have attributed to Jesus. Even if I quoted you in a book, it wouldn't make you a co-author of that book. Jesus did not write the Bible. If you think he did, you are incorrect. That's not even a debatable issue. Not one word of the bible was written by Jesus.

    Now, he may or may not have spoken some of the words that are in the bible, but that depends on how accurate the authors' were in their depiction. Considering that modern biblical scholars believe that most, if not all, of the New Testament authors never even met Jesus, it's perfectly reasonable to note that the accuracy of those quotes is definitely up for debate.

    In any case, it's absolute nonsense to claim that Jesus wrote the New Testament. At best, it is an accurate biography of him written decades after he died. At worst, it's an inaccurate, nearly fictional, biography. One thing it definitely ain't is an autobiography.

    And you are frankly wrong in your assessment of Scientology. Hubbard never "glossed over" anything.
    He definitely glossed over the absurdity and illogical nature of it. All religions do that.

    They have nothing to do with each other. One is the founder of a philosophy, the other is the prophet of religion. When a person bashes Hubbard and Scientology, it is no better than the ignorant, hateful people who bash Muhammed and Islam.
    Religions are a specific type of philosophy. They just incorporate a supernatural/faith component into them. They don't deserve any more or less consideration than any other philosophical view as far as criticisms go.

    The only connection is that you happen to not like them.
    Where on Earth did you come up with that utterly fictional conclusion?

    I'm actually quite neutral on both of them as far as "liking" or "disliking" goes. Like the vast majority of philosophies, they have both positive and negative aspects.
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    No. Red letters mean he is directly attributed to saying it, not writing it.
    Retread that post carefully and you will see that nowhere did I say that Jesus wrote anything. Please do try try to have some clue what you are talking about prior to shooting you mouth off.

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Retread that post carefully and you will see that nowhere did I say that Jesus wrote anything. Please do try try to have some clue what you are talking about prior to shooting you mouth off.

    You said he had a hand in it, which could only be true if he wrote it. You were responding ot a point where it was clear to all but the intellectually dishonest that authorship was being discussed, which confirms the implication from "he had a hand in it". BD also made sure to say "attributed" to him instead of "said by him", which allows for the possibility of a misquote from those authors.

    Please do try to have some clue what your words actually mean before saying them.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 08-16-12 at 01:54 PM.
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