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Thread: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

  1. #41
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    "Objectivism" is a misnomer. It would be more accurate to call the philosophy "Subjectivism," since the only value it holds is the value of one's self.
    Thats a non-sequitur, also Objectivism is in complete opposition to subjectivism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I call it "Randianism" as an accurate descriptor of what it is. It's a dogmatic system of thought set forth by Ayn Rand.
    And I prefer to call a philosophy by the label given to it by the Philosopher. Dogmatic how? Its in complete opposition to faith and entirely based on reason.

    Please cite a fallacy in the reasoning of Objectivism. If you even understand it at all that is.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 08-16-12 at 12:08 AM.
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    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  2. #42
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Decent?

    Imo, it was a 1000+ page rambling, nonsensical, bore fest.

    The movie was beyond horrific.

    And Scientology is a joke beyond compare.

    L.Ron Hubbard was a brilliant, emotionally disturbed, vindictive whackjob.
    shrug...

    To each his own.

    I enjoyed the novel.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  3. #43
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    No, it's not. Selfishness is the only applicable word. Self sufficiency has nothing to do with it, as Randians are perfectly content to benefit from others. A Randian is merely selfish, with all the base and ugly things that that words connotes.

    Comparing Hubbard with Rand is an insult to Scientology.
    Your attitude...coming from a person who enjoys having their life run by the government...is perfectly understandable. You would see that someone who relies upon their own abilities to make their way through life to be supremely selfish.

    I don't share your attitude.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

  4. #44
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    The primary problem with your argument, is that you are trying to compare religion to philosophy, and although they may share some commonalities, they are not the same thing. Religion is generally based on strictly belief, while philosophy questions, and tries to arrive at a conclusion by the proocess of reason.

    What is the false premise of objectivism, as a philosophy? One of Rand's premises was that of a benevolent universe, but that would be one based on reason and rationality, and most humans are not reasonable or rational, but rather emotion-based thinkers, so to most people, Rand would be considered heretical, as she rejected emotional states as a logical basis for rationalizing.

    This may help explain her thoughts on the matter:
    Ayn Rand's "Benevolent Universe Premise" (referred to in various essays, letters, and journal entries) is her description of a rational man's fundamental psychological perspective on reality. Operating on this premise, one views the universe as a place where he can succeed and be happy. He has a generally positive attitude about life -- he expects to be happy. This does not mean that he is never sad or never experiences failure, but that he believes happiness and success are his natural state of being. He does not repress or ignore negative emotions, but neither does he dwell on them unnecessarily. He focuses on the positive.

    Rand contrasts this perspective with the "Malevolent Universe Premise," in which one sees the universe as a place where failure and pain are the norm. One who holds this premise may live virtuously and enjoy continuing success in life, but he is always waiting for the other shoe to drop -- he expects failure and unhappiness. When things are going his way, he begins to experience happiness anxiety. When something bad finally does happen, he feels miserable -- but justified.
    The Benevolent People Premise - The Objectivism Meta-Blog Discussion - Objectivism Online Forum
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
    -C G Jung

  5. #45
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    Your attitude...coming from a person who enjoys having their life run by the government...is perfectly understandable. You would see that someone who relies upon their own abilities to make their way through life to be supremely selfish.

    I don't share your attitude.
    Rand is not merely talking about politics, but personal values as well. Minimal government to ensure the liberty of all people is ideal. But there is nothing laudable about selfishness. Selfishness is base and evil.

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
    You would see that someone who relies upon their own abilities to make their way through life to be supremely selfish.

    Have you read Rand?

    Relying on one's own abilities is not the objection people who want strong societies are making against Rand. She was operating on a false premise. Humans are not just rational or irrational ... they are are also social animals.

    Think Humanism v. Objectivism ... her story is justifying greed at all cost to others and making a case for selfishness. The stories Hubbard wrote or Rand wrote were simply stories written by megalomaniacs.

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Rand is not merely talking about politics, but personal values as well. Minimal government to ensure the liberty of all people is ideal. But there is nothing laudable about selfishness. Selfishness is base and evil.
    Fact ....!

  8. #48
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Ayn Rand simply created a fictitious political ideology of selfishness to create a story around it.

    L. Ron Hubbard created a fictional religion to sell.

    Both were delusional and narcisisisitic and it is revealed in their writing imo.
    che seems to be the real L Ron Hubbard because he has lots of childish delusional followers

    the only good news is that Bolivians with CIA help blew Che's head off. No such luck with the fraud who foisted some idiocy named XENU on lots of mentally ill Americans

  9. #49
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Thats a non-sequitur, also Objectivism is in complete opposition to subjectivism.
    You can't just throw that phrase around without understanding what it means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    And I prefer to call a philosophy by the label given to it by the Philosopher. Dogmatic how? Its in complete opposition to faith and entirely based on reason.

    Please cite a fallacy in the reasoning of Objectivism. If you even understand it at all that is.
    Your post is too facile to deserve a counter argument but you will get one anyway.

    Calling Ayn Rand a philosopher is very charitable. Her philosophy is sloppy and unlearned. She gives little thought to any philosopher besides Aristotle, which is unforgivably negligent.

    Why is Randianism doctrinaire? Because it is immutable. Rand permitted no deviation or addition to her pseudo-philosophy.

    Her entire philosophy is inherently unsound, because it fails to bridge is and ought. She describes selfishness, and asserts that selfishness is rational, but there is not foundation. She makes no case as to why her morality of selfishness ought to be. As such it fails on the most essential element of ethics. It is at root no better than the pathetic nihilism or moral relativism you see of so many these days, but at least nihilists and relativists don't dress up their lack of values as ethics, and pretend that their selfishness is morally justified. Her whole "philosophy" amounts to smoke and mirrors because of its failure to account for this most critical element of any moral philosophy. It is a profound failure.

  10. #50
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Rand is not merely talking about politics, but personal values as well. Minimal government to ensure the liberty of all people is ideal. But there is nothing laudable about selfishness. Selfishness is base and evil.
    especially when it encourages more government taking more wealth of individuals

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