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Thread: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

  1. #321
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Science has shown a major flood happened in the area. WTF? Why be willfully ignorant?
    Because what is described in the Bible is not a major flood, it is a world-wide flood. It describes all the mountains being covered, which cannot have happened unless the entire planet was underwater.

    So do try again.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #322
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Bull****. Youve made a claim and NEVER backed it up. So now put up Matt. Show us the statistics of murder and rape BEFORE and AFTER Christianity. I dare you to source your claim.
    Right, you want statistics from over 2,000 years ago.



    So should I use the US Census Bureau, or Gallup Polls?
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  3. #323
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Right, you want statistics from over 2,000 years ago.


    So should I use the US Census Bureau, or Gallup Polls?
    That's actually the point. You claimed they were "common," so what were you basing that on? We can't establish that they were uncommon just as you can't establish that they were common, but we can at least determine the second part of your claim, i.e. that they were legal. We've shown through at least three sources right off the tops of our heads (Ur-Nammu, Hammurabi and the Old Testament) that rape, theft and murder were indeed illegal prior to the establishment of Christianity. As to the notion that these crimes became uncommon post-founding of Christianity, you've presented nothing to support this except wishful thinking, and in fact we can very much establish that lawlessness in the form of the Dark Ages (post rise of Christianity) prevailed (and this is even ignoring the atrocities of the Crusades, the various wars between the Christian nations, and the brutal treatment of non Christian cultures in India, Africa and the Americas).

    Out of curiosity, were you home schooled? In my experience on debate forums every time anyone has made the sort of claims you've made they've always turned out to be home schooled.

  4. #324
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I love circular logic combined with loaded questions. They make my magnet tingle.
    Oh so shoot to kill orders during natural disasters is "circular logic". Gotcha.
    Last edited by Matt Foley; 08-24-12 at 05:41 AM.
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Because what is described in the Bible is not a major flood, it is a world-wide flood. It describes all the mountains being covered, which cannot have happened unless the entire planet was underwater.

    So do try again.
    It's true, Blackdog. Even taking into account possible scientific theories, such as meteor strikes that would cause massive tsunamies, or permanent flooding caused by melting glaciers from the end of the last ice ages, the flooding still affects coastal areas and not high terrains. Unless there are flood myths from cultures in high altitudes you know of that I don't?

  6. #326
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    That's actually the point. You claimed they were "common," so what were you basing that on? We can't establish that they were uncommon just as you can't establish that they were common, but we can at least determine the second part of your claim, i.e. that they were legal. We've shown through at least three sources right off the tops of our heads (Ur-Nammu, Hammurabi and the Old Testament) that rape, theft and murder were indeed illegal prior to the establishment of Christianity.
    Read it again, there are exemptions, and the punishment against a slave by the upper caste is a slap on the wrist most of the time: ergo murder theft and rape is as legal as jaywalking.

    Out of curiosity, were you home schooled?
    Well the globalist mods are trying to ban me so I'm not allowed to flame you back. But if murder were legal I would slit your throat.
    Last edited by Matt Foley; 08-24-12 at 05:41 AM.
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  7. #327
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Well the globalist mods are trying to ban me.
    Get some new material mate.

    You're boring.

  8. #328
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Moderator's Warning:
    Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of PoliticsPersonal attacks and threats are not allowed. Cease this behavior.
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  9. #329
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Read it again, there are exemptions, and the punishment against a slave by the upper caste is a slap on the wrist most of the time: ergo murder theft and rape is as legal as jaywalking.
    1)Quit trying to shift the goalposts. Taking all the codes of laws together, it is seen that theft, rape and murder were universally seen as negative things, such that they saw it necessary to create penalties against them. The only difference between the cultures lay in the severity of the punishments. Thus, your claim that they were legal is easily debunked.
    2)Using slavery only hurts your case, since punishment for crimes against slaves post-rise of Christianity was also the equivalent of a jaywalking ticket for nearly 1900 years. Let me put this another way: Christianity was so ineffective against slavery that it took 75 years to make it illegal in a country where equality of man was the whole point of its founding.

  10. #330
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Meh - if he comes on the internet and tries to present his bull**** as real - welcome to the internet - people will call you out on it. Now go off and annoy somebody else.
    Your list so far is extremely poor.

    take this onefor example:
    Matthew 1KJV)
    "4 And Aram begat Aminadab"
    According to I Chronicles 2:10 it was Ram that begat Aminadab, not Aram. The earliest extant Greek manuscripts have the Greek equivalent of the English "Aram" for Matthew 1:4. (so presumably the KJV is correctly translating Matthew's error). The NIV has changed "Aram" to "Ram" correcting Matthew's error. The LXX states that Aram begat Aminadab so it's likely that Matthew made his error by simply copying from the LXX as he apparently was not fluent in Hebrew and so could not check the original Hebrew language. Some Bible scholars do theorize that the LXX was changed in some places to conform to the Gospels and that this is one of those instances. In any case Matthew's apparent use of "Aram" does not agree with any known Hebrew text and in the absence of any evidence that the Hebrew use of "Ram" was the result of any change would be an error by Matthew.
    It's not even an error. Aram and Ram are the same. Ancient Hebrew doesn't have vowels!

    That site claims that the original texts didnt have chapter numbers, so the addition of chapters was an "error." That is insane. These people know nothing of history. Adding chapters to a text long afterwards is pretty standard fare, it is often done for the ease of the modern reader. The chapters do, in fact correspond to natural breaks in the text. This is true of all ancient texts.

    So, look, Hatuey, it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about, and are just trying to poke holes in a religious text as part of a personal vendetta against religion. It's tacky.

    The fact is the Bible has no more major historical errors than a typical ancient text, and fewer errors than many. You can make a far longer list of actual errors in Suetonius.

    The bottom line is you are holding the Bible to a nitpicky and ludicrous standard, to the point where even things that you're going to call things errors aren't really errors. You have no clue what you are talking about.

    Keep in mind I am only interested in history here, I have no interest in defending the religious truth of the Bible. From a historical perspective, your list is the work of a dilettante at best.

    Like I said earlier, only a simpleton would think that "historical accuracy" had an easy definition, and likewise only a simpleton would be impressed with your slapdash list of errors, most of which are not even errors at all.

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