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Thread: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

  1. #301
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Actually, if you go take a look at some Joseph Campbell, he explains very well why these cultures have flood myths, it isn't because there was a single worldwide flood, it's because these cultures live on flood plains where flooding is common. Cultures that do not live on flood plains and did not have contact with cultures that did lack flood myths.

    We return to the fact that these stores are myths. They never happened anywhere near the way they were described. As such, why should we believe these books, except where we can find evidence to corroborate their stories? And since we can't corroborate the existence of any gods, why shouldn't we toss that out as unsupported gibberish as well?

    Faith doesn't make facts, sorry.
    Again this has nothing to do with anything I said. If you are not going to answer or reply to what I said, why bother?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  2. #302
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    This has nothing to do with what I said. You asked for proof, and you got it.
    No, you provided evidence that many cultures observed small floods and created myths around them. You did not provide evidence that the story in the Bible is real or in any way credible.

    If you're going to acknowledge that the story is wholly mythical, that's fine. Then why keep the Bible around as a credible source for anything?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Actually, if you go take a look at some Joseph Campbell, he explains very well why these cultures have flood myths, it isn't because there was a single worldwide flood, it's because these cultures live on flood plains where flooding is common.

    Oh, Cephus, that's rich! Joseph Campbell.

    At least you found a way to tie the thread back to the topic: Joseph Campbell is to history what Ayn Rand is to politics.

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Actually, I should probably explain that. You see, Cephus, the monomyth is discredited. These ingenious categorization schemes are great fun but they just bad history. Myths and cultures don't necessary fit into neat little species, as much as we might like them to.

    So when Campbell was trying to prove his monomyth hypothesis, he twisted things. He wanted to see that disparate cultures would come up with myths that looked the same inevitably. But that just isn't how it works. There isn't some seed in the human mind that will make a society unfold with the same archetypes. You want to talk about quasi-religious fantasy theories, that is what these are, because they are utterly unscientific and nonexplanatory, and they do real harm because they contort history to fit the theory. A historian should be striving to overcome prejudice to get to the truth not cultivating confirmation bias with a pet theory like the monomyth.

    The fact is the mediterranean flood myths are too similar and occur in too close a span of time to have arisen independently. Most likely, they all stem from the same flood, which some Middle Eastern dude and his family road out in a huge, fully-loaded boat.

    So spare us the Hitchens-esque talking points, Cephus.

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    That would depend on who you talk to now wouldn't it? Considering it is not one book, but an assembly of many books from many different people I would say you are reaching. Again with more blanket statements.
    Ah, playing semantics. Want me to find an error in each book of the bible?

    The Bible is the word of God as interpreted by man. The Bible also points out, we are not robots. So no, your 2 choices are limited and based in speculation and your own biased opinion.

    I am not certain why I even bother to respond to this silliness anymore.
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Want me to find an error in each book of the bible?
    I sure do. Please include the deuterocanon.

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    My take is that the best historical value that the bible has is that it offers insight into the political and philosophical mentality of the people from that culture during the time that they lived. All religious texts offer that value.

    The flood myths? They don't have to be accurate historically to have historical value. The creation myth offers insight into how people viewed the world and man's place in it. The stories of Jesus offer tremendous insight into the political climate of Jerusalem back in the 1st century. And it's especially interesting when you take a look at the similarities to the modern US. The differences are also interesting, but the similarities are downright fascinating.

    Ironically, you'd think that atheists of all people could find some common ground with Jesus due to his conflicts with the Pharisees.
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I sure do. Please include the deuterocanon.
    Fine. And I'll count ALL of them just so you don't even get prissy and try to pretend I didn't post them all - there should in total of 46 books used by roman catholic church. If you want the other 5 used by the orthodox, that's your problem:

    Genesis' (2):

    Bible Errors in Genesis - Errors & Mistakes in Genesis, First Book of the Bible

    Errors in Exodus(1):

    Atheist Divine: Biblical Errors | EXODUS

    Errors in Leviticus, Ezekiel, Romans, Judges, Isiah, Kings (2 books), Corinthians, Judges, (11):

    Atheist Divine: Biblical Errors | Deuteronomy, Joshua & Judges

    Errors in Numbers (1):

    Bible errata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia see: Lion's Bible

    Marc, Luke, John, Matthew and Acts (5):

    1001 Errors In The Christian Bible 2012®

    Ephesians (1):

    AgainstDispensationalism.com: The Ephesians Road Out of Dispensationalism (Part 5)

    Errors in Ezra and Nemeniah (2):

    Ezra 2 vs. Nehemiah 7

    Errors in Chronicles (2):

    Bible Contradictions. Kings and the ‘historical' Chronicles. Copyist error? Infallible inerrancy? Sola scriptura?

    Errors in Tobit, Judith, Baruch & Jeremiah (4):

    Errors in the Apocrypha | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

    Errors in Maccabees (2):

    2 Maccabees Apocrypha Non-canonical Book | FALSE Scripture

    Errors in Psalms, Samuels(2) - (3):

    Bible Babble - Contradictions in the Holy Bible

    --------------

    That's 34 books and I'm tired so I'll get the other 12 tomorrow. You REALLY want me to make you look silly and go after the other 12? Please say you do.
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  9. #309
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No, you provided evidence that many cultures observed small floods and created myths around them. You did not provide evidence that the story in the Bible is real or in any way credible.
    Science has shown a major flood happened in the area. WTF? Why be willfully ignorant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    If you're going to acknowledge that the story is wholly mythical, that's fine. Then why keep the Bible around as a credible source for anything?
    Who said anything about mythical? I said figurative.

    You know what, why even bother.

    Have a good one man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #310
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ah, playing semantics. Want me to find an error in each book of the bible?
    Reaching? What part of blanket statement do I need to explain to make it clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Ah, yes, run away before your ignorance is shown.
    My ignorance? LMAO!

    OK have a good one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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