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Thread: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

  1. #291
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    There is ample evidence for a great flood. Deucalion, Noah, Atlantis, etc. Flood myth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So that's a real bad example if you're trying to come up with Biblical historical inaccuracies.
    There is evidence for lots of smaller floods, yes. There is no evidence for a single world-wide flood. Try again.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I'll take a shot. Prove the creation story or the flood story ever really happened.
    The creation story is not literal. The flood story is a local thing as proven by science as a large flood did happen in the area, This is the same reason almost every major religion from Africa, the Middle East and the Americas have a flood epic. They were just large local floods on a massive scale. The geology supports this rather than a global flood. 2000 years ago the Middle East and Africa was the entire world. So world wide flood is accurate by their standards.

    This is not rocket science, lol.

    I know some Christians believe the literal translation, and I have to disagree with them as well.
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    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
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  3. #293
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    There is evidence for lots of smaller floods, yes. There is no evidence for a single world-wide flood. Try again.
    You have to see it from their perspective, not our modern view of the world.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  4. #294
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The creation story is not literal. The flood story is a local thing as proven by science as a large flood did happen in the area, This is the same reason almost every major religion from Africa, the Middle East and the Americas have a flood epic. They were just large local floods on a massive scale. The geology supports this rather than a global flood. 2000 years ago the Middle East and Africa was the entire world. So world wide flood is accurate by their standards.

    This is not rocket science, lol.

    I know some Christians believe the literal translation, and I have to disagree with them as well.
    Precisely.

  5. #295
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Jryan View Post
    zzzzzz Continue please? (I'm 110% sure that your own fellow christian colleagues disagree because the earth didn't exist "way before that" because jesus hadn't created it, but continue please)
    Shows how much you know, lol. He is absolutely correct. Old Earth Christians like myself do not believe in the young earth crap.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #296
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    The creation story is not literal. The flood story is a local thing as proven by science as a large flood did happen in the area, This is the same reason almost every major religion from Africa, the Middle East and the Americas have a flood epic. They were just large local floods on a massive scale. The geology supports this rather than a global flood. 2000 years ago the Middle East and Africa was the entire world. So world wide flood is accurate by their standards.
    Actually, if you go take a look at some Joseph Campbell, he explains very well why these cultures have flood myths, it isn't because there was a single worldwide flood, it's because these cultures live on flood plains where flooding is common. Cultures that do not live on flood plains and did not have contact with cultures that did lack flood myths.

    We return to the fact that these stores are myths. They never happened anywhere near the way they were described. As such, why should we believe these books, except where we can find evidence to corroborate their stories? And since we can't corroborate the existence of any gods, why shouldn't we toss that out as unsupported gibberish as well?

    Faith doesn't make facts, sorry.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  7. #297
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    You have to see it from their perspective, not our modern view of the world.
    See, I do understand it from their perspective. They saw things they didn't understand and they attributed them to gods. Today, we know better. We realize that the things they claimed were the work of gods were really the work of nature.

    There is no reason to think gods exist.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  8. #298
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Well, look, even a Biblical literalist isn't going to say it was 2000 years ago. I mean, look at the timeline, Noah is purported to have lived about 4000 years before Christ.

    But as I said earlier, I am approaching this from a strictly philological perspective, not a religious one. Calling the Bible "historically inaccurate" is a sweeping and wholly small minded thing to say. Genesis is, of course, full of fantasy, but it is a creation epic not unlike Hesiod. It is literary, and very few of the Abrahamic religions take it literally.

    The rest of the Bible is as historically accurate as any other comparable ancient text, more some than many. Who won what battle, who begat whom, and so on, are highly accurate. One of the major apparent inaccuracies is in Exodus, since there is no corroborating evidence that the Hebrews ever lived in Egypt. But really, that is not a bad record for historicity in an ancient text. The Bible is more "historically accurate" than most comparable works (whatever that means... only a simpleton would think there was an easy definition of "historical accuracy"). Compare Suetonius, a Roman gossip-monger who is a key source of what we know about the Julio-Claudians.

    The jury is still out on the historicity of Jesus but if you pay attention to the recent scholarship then you'd know that the weight of evidence is tilting in favor of the fact that there was a historical Jesus. It does seem to strain credulity that Jesus is an entirely fabricated character. I admit, I once leaned toward the hypothesis that Jesus was a myth, because the Christ cult is certainly part of the mystery cult tradition that includes Isis, Eleusis and Mithras. But the most likely explanation is that Jesus was a real Jewish hero-teacher much like the character found in the New Testament who fused Jewish teaching with Greek philosophy to create the Abrahamic-Hellenic hybrid espoused in the Bible. There probably wasn't a census around the time of His birth, and a number of other facts were probably fudged to align with certain old testament prophecies. But the broad strokes are likely true, and that is a lot to expect from ancient texts.

    So, is the Bible "historically accurate?" If one is inclined to give short answers to these type of complex questions, then the short answer is "Yes."
    I agree that a lot of the wars portrayed are correct. I'm not questioning that in my statement. I"m more questioning anything used as a "God" context, to clarify.

    I have to admit, you made a very good and valid point, in which I will address. Well you may of made two though so I'll go with the first I found while scrolling up. I will cast my doubts on it as a fact, which I think is a partial statistic.

    I think that Jesus could of existed. Could he of been everything stated in the bible? Yes. Could he of been otherwise? Yes. I just don't see a definitive answer here. You can't "PROVE" anything of his existence because it seems to be so extensively covered up imho. (Since we can't talk with scientific reasoning here, just fyi, I'm talking in what I think, which is your religion). But, and I make a big BUT especially about the christian faith we believe in today, why, with the corruptness of the church since year 0, should we believe in it? I mean the church has had a MAJOR play or a MAJOR control or THE control in everything since Christianity as we know it started.
    I'm coming to see that no matter what law we regulate, be it the stand your ground act, there is never an objective morally right answer to any morale question; in fact, since there are multiple objectively right answers to every moral question that leaves us with a lot of grey area and a lot of black area (not in the racial since).
    -Jryan

  9. #299
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    See, I do understand it from their perspective. They saw things they didn't understand and they attributed them to gods. Today, we know better. We realize that the things they claimed were the work of gods were really the work of nature.

    There is no reason to think gods exist.
    This has nothing to do with what I said. You asked for proof, and you got it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  10. #300
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Shows how much you know, lol. He is absolutely correct. Old Earth Christians like myself do not believe in the young earth crap.
    Wow, BD that's three times in a row I agree with you.

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