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Thread: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

  1. #191
    Death2Globalists Matt Foley's Avatar
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Relevant part of your source?

    See, it's about Germania during the Roman period and not about law in the history of civilization, and the words theft, murder, rape, and Christ or Christian are curiously absent in a source that's supposed to convince me that before Christians came along theft, rape and murder were legal and common. So you'll pardon me if I have my doubts.
    You never read it. See this is why it's pointless to argue with leftists, we should just kill leftists instead.
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  2. #192
    Almost respectable

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    You never read it.
    You tried to waste my time with a thirty page thesis that had nothing to do with the topic, I didn't fall for it, get over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    See this is why it's pointless to argue with leftists, we should just kill leftists instead.
    What a perfectly rational response.

    Anyway, for anyone else who's curious, the earliest written set of laws still in existence is the Code of Ur-Nammu, dated from around 2100 BC.

    The first two laws are


    • 1. If a man commits a murder, that man must be killed.
    • 2. If a man commits a robbery, he will be killed.


    And then on rape:

    6. If a man violates the right of another and deflowers the virgin wife of a young man, they shall kill that male.

    And not surprisingly, a tad more lenient for the rape of a slave girl (but still illegal):

    8. If a man proceeded by force, and deflowered the virgin female slave of another man, that man must pay five shekels of silver.

    Code of Ur-Nammu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So murder, rape and theft, all illegal, 2100 years before Christ. Of course looking this up was purely a formality as any thinking person can tell you that you can't have a functioning city-state with everybody willy-nilly killing, raping and stealing from each other. It just wouldn't work at all. You don't need religion, let alone a religion 4000 years well past the founding of city-state civilization, to figure that out. In fact, I would be surprised if you went back to tribal days and didn't find rules condemning those acts just as strongly (if not worse), though there might at that point be differing philosophies on the concept of property.

  3. #193
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    Luna Tick's Avatar
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    Ayn Rand simply created a fictitious political ideology of selfishness to create a story around it.

    L. Ron Hubbard created a fictional religion to sell.

    Both were delusional and narcisisisitic and it is revealed in their writing imo.
    You nailed it. She was a crackpot. I can't believe anyone thinks we should base public policy on her bizarre thinking. I have read Anthem. I will say it's a quality work of fiction. That's fiction, as in engaging story.

  4. #194
    Sage

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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It never is. Have been doing it since day one here.
    Now just do it every time.

  5. #195
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Tick View Post
    You nailed it. She was a crackpot. I can't believe anyone thinks we should base public policy on her bizarre thinking. I have read Anthem. I will say it's a quality work of fiction. That's fiction, as in engaging story.
    Is it your position that fiction has no relation to reality? No 'moral to the story?'

  6. #196
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Is it your position that fiction has no relation to reality? No 'moral to the story?'
    Sometimes it does. Sometimes it's just entertainment. Sometimes it can be entertaining without agreeing with the message.

    Edit:
    As an example: I'd bet you might enjoy the plays of Gerhart Hauptmann, which are very well written with snappy dialogue and fun to watch with plots that build. Their themes are socialistic in nature. Bet you'd disagree with that part, but enjoy the shows nonetheless.
    Last edited by Luna Tick; 08-19-12 at 06:25 PM.

  7. #197
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Now just do it every time.
    Always have.
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  8. #198
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Is it your position that fiction has no relation to reality? No 'moral to the story?'
    Just because a story has a moral doesn't mean that moral has any bearing on reality.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  9. #199
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Always have.
    "Ayn Rand was a joke. Her faux ideology is worse than a joke. Todays randroids would have to multiply their teeny tiny numbers by a factor of at least ten to work UP to the level of a joke."

    Always? Oh, I guess you think this is constructive, and not just rhetoric and insults.

  10. #200
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    Re: Ayn Rand is the L. Ron Hubbard of Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Just because a story has a moral doesn't mean that moral has any bearing on reality.
    By definition I think it does. But I was simply rebutting Lunas implication that fiction has no relation to reality, which has since been cleared up. Simply because Rand expressed her philosophy in fiction (common among philosophers) does not automatically dismiss it. The very fact that it is a huge topic for debate confirms the opposite. I would say the same of Hubbard, though my personal opinion is that his motive was power, not truth.

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