View Poll Results: Will Ryan as VP help or hurt Romney win election?

Voters
186. You may not vote on this poll
  • It will help Romney

    51 27.42%
  • It will hurt Romney

    84 45.16%
  • It will have no real effect on the outcome

    38 20.43%
  • Other, please explain

    13 6.99%
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Thread: Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

  1. #201
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    Re: Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

    Now that's funny coming from a guy who refuses to deal with the fact that Obama cuts more from Medicare than Ryan does.

    But in fact it is wrong. Ryan has been talking about (and putting for proposals for) entitlement and tax reform since at least 2009.

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    Re: Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Oh btw there is no citation to the claim that the term "death tax" is a neologism as claimed by wiki. For all i know a far lefty put that phrase in there. Since anyone can edit that definition it is most likely an opinion by someone who worships the death tax. Nonetheless the term "death tax" does not even meet the definition of a neologism because even the IRS was using that term to refer to some estate taxes.


    You miss the point. Faris & Luntz intentionally, purposefully, deliberately, announced to the right wing world that it was their specific goal to have the term DEATH TAX replace any mention of the inheritance tax or estate tax because it advanced a specific political agenda that you endorse and support.

    They cited polling data which told them that the term incited more support among voters than the simple mention of an inheritance tax or estate tax. Even though the name DEATH TAX is a lie and openly deceitful since well over 99% of Americans who die never pay it - and thus there is no real tax on death - they adopted it as a part of an designed political strategy in the debate on the tax.

    This reality has been repeatedly pointed out to you over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread. The term DEATH TAX is now the Boston Cream Pie of the political world despite the reality that it is NOT a pie but a cake. We have gone through the statistics more times than are countable. But even though you concede that over 99% of Americans do not pay the tax, you will not give up the term despite its obvious misnamed nature and intentionally deceptive label.

    WHY TURTLE? WHY?

    Because you are part of the right wing conservative cause celebre to get rid of the estate or inheritance tax and as such are a warrior in the same army than Luntz & Faris are part of. You willingly and freely march shoulder to shoulder with them in this crusade and you willingly and openly use their tactics and follow their marching orders.

    I thought it was funny last night when you claimed that perhaps Luntz & Faris were copying you. And now we are expected to accept that your participation in some local discussion on a college campus was the impetus for the Luntz & Faris decree. Your hubris knows no limits does it?

    It reminds me of a time when I saw Jerry Seinfeld in a club in Michigan and told him afterwards that he should have his own TV show. When he said he was not an actor I told him to merely play himself as a stand up comic. Nine years of hit TV later and hundreds of millions of dollars later I am typing this out.

    Now prove me wrong Turtle. Prove my little anecdote wrong.

    Do you see the problem with you using your own personal life events as evidence in a debate?

    You can claim anything you want to claim. But the reason you claim the DEATH TAX is because you are a political ally of Luntz and Faris and march shoulder to shoulder with them in this right wing cause celebre. You are in their army and you are following their orders just the same as if you have never heard the term DEATH TAX before Luntz & Faris ordered the right wing to do their bidding. The results are the same and your employment of their tactics is the same.

    Here is the info that you have seen countless times from the wikipedia entry on Estate Taxes in the USA

    Political use of "death tax" as a synonym for "estate tax" was encouraged by Jack Faris of the National Federation of Independent Business[47] during the Speakership of Newt Gingrich.
    Well-known Republican pollster Frank Luntz wrote that the term "death tax" "kindled voter resentment in a way that 'inheritance tax' and 'estate tax' do not".[48]
    Linguist George Lakoff states that the term "death tax" is a deliberate and carefully calculated neologism used as a propaganda tactic to aid in efforts to repeal estate taxes. The use of "death tax" rather than "estate tax" in the wording of questions in the 2002 National Election Survey increased support for estate tax repeal by only a few percentage points.
    Nobody is saying that they invented the term death tax. Nobody is saying that you or anybody else did not have those words pass their lips before they issued their marching orders to the warriors of the right. But what is clear is that you are certainly following them and are part of that crusade in the effort to repeal estate taxes.
    Last edited by haymarket; 08-12-12 at 08:34 AM.
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  3. #203
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    Re: Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Now that's funny coming from a guy who refuses to deal with the fact that Obama cuts more from Medicare than Ryan does.

    But in fact it is wrong. Ryan has been talking about (and putting for proposals for) entitlement and tax reform since at least 2009.

    Ok lets talk about this ok.....If given a choice...I much prefer to see my tax money spent on somone who really needs it...then to give the people that have benefited the most from America and have TAKEN the most from America and who have done fabulously well taking from most other americans many of which have NEVER SERVED THIS COUNTRY or did a goddamn thing for this country BUT TAKE FROM IT...another tax cut....and that cpwill comes directly from my heart.

    Obamacare does not give the people that need NOTHING a tax cut just because they want one...Obamacare covers a person thats been put out of work and cant find a job because of outsourcing a way to give his CHILD medical treatment...medical treatment WE ALL PAYED FOR ANYWAY...
    You can cut Social Security and Medicare the "RIGHT" way and I will be right with you....Just try to cut it to give the pigs more and I will fight you till I stop breathing....whos kidding who here ...rightwing bs rhetoric doesnt work with me...I listened to that **** for longer than you been in existence

  4. #204
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    Re: Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    Ryan allows Romney to drive an ideological argument, the same argument that Obama seems to want to make, but with less clarity about the labels.

    And in a battle between obviously liberal vs obviously conservative, the conservative should win.
    Sadly, we do NOT have an obvious liberal to uphold our end of that debate.
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  5. #205
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    Re: Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You miss the point. Faris & Luntz intentionally, purposefully, deliberately, announced to the right wing world that it was their specific goal to have the term DEATH TAX replace any mention of the inheritance tax or estate tax because it advanced a specific political agenda that you endorse and support.

    They cited polling data which told them that the term incited more support among voters than the simple mention of an inheritance tax or estate tax. Even though the name DEATH TAX is a lie and openly deceitful since well over 99% of Americans who die never pay it - and thus there is no real tax on death - they adopted it as a part of an designed political strategy in the debate on the tax.

    This reality has been repeatedly pointed out to you over and over and over again in thread after thread after thread. The term DEATH TAX is now the Boston Cream Pie of the political world despite the reality that it is NOT a pie but a cake. We have gone through the statistics more times than are countable. But even though you concede that over 99% of Americans do not pay the tax, you will not give up the term despite its obvious misnamed nature and intentionally deceptive label.

    WHY TURTLE? WHY?

    Because you are part of the right wing conservative cause celebre to get rid of the estate or inheritance tax and as such are a warrior in the same army than Luntz & Faris are part of. You willingly and freely march shoulder to shoulder with them in this crusade and you willingly and openly use their tactics and follow their marching orders.

    I thought it was funny last night when you claimed that perhaps Luntz & Faris were copying you. And now we are expected to accept that your participation in some local discussion on a college campus was the impetus for the Luntz & Faris decree. Your hubris knows no limits does it?

    It reminds me of a time when I saw Jerry Seinfeld in a club in Michigan and told him afterwards that he should have his own TV show. When he said he was not an actor I told him to merely play himself as a stand up comic. Nine years of hit TV later and hundreds of millions of dollars later I am typing this out.

    Now prove me wrong Turtle. Prove my little anecdote wrong.

    Do you see the problem with you using your own personal life events as evidence in a debate?

    You can claim anything you want to claim. But the reason you claim the DEATH TAX is because you are a political ally of Luntz and Faris and march shoulder to shoulder with them in this right wing cause celebre. You are in their army and you are following their orders just the same as if you have never heard the term DEATH TAX before Luntz & Faris ordered the right wing to do their bidding. The results are the same and your employment of their tactics is the same.

    Here is the info that you have seen countless times from the wikipedia entry on Estate Taxes in the USA



    Nobody is saying that they invented the term death tax. Nobody is saying that you or anybody else did not have those words pass their lips before they issued their marching orders to the warriors of the right. But what is clear is that you are certainly following them and are part of that crusade in the effort to repeal estate taxes.

    those who are saddled with the death tax have been calling it that for years. long before the two guys who give you the goo goos ever showed up.

    I guess you want to project how dems act on us. legions of sheeple parroting the talking points of their dem masters. sorry Haymarket, it doesn't work that way for those of us who want to be free and independent.

  6. #206
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    Re: Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    those who are saddled with the death tax have been calling it that for years. long before the two guys who give you the goo goos ever showed up.
    And as such are part of the crusade against the estate and inheritance tax just as you are - just as Luntz is - just as Faris is and just as all who favor the rich are. There is no dispute about that.

    The idea that you are all "free and independent" but still soldiers in the same crusade wearing the same uniform and using the same language which is false upon its face is laughable.
    Last edited by haymarket; 08-12-12 at 08:59 AM.
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  7. #207
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    Re: Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And as such are part of the crusade against the estate and inheritance tax just as you are - just as Luntz is - just as Faris is and just as all who favor the rich are. There is no dispute about that.
    and marx and other communists favored heavy death taxes. there is no dispute that those who hate private property and want an all powerful nanny state to gobble up more and more private property support the death tax

    those envious of the wealthy all support the death tax as well. there is no dispute about that either

  8. #208
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    Re: Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And as such are part of the crusade against the estate and inheritance tax just as you are - just as Luntz is - just as Faris is and just as all who favor the rich are. There is no dispute about that.

    The idea that you are all "free and independent" but still soldiers in the same crusade wearing the same uniform and using the same language which is false upon its face is laughable.
    Two questions: How does one enlist in the 'crusade?' And does membership come with any cool gear?

  9. #209
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    Re: Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Well, it is being reported that Romney will announce Ryan tomorrow morning. While it is entirely possible that they are screwing with the media, it seems kinda unlikely and that Ryan will be the VP pick. Do you think the pick will help Romney, hurt him, have no real effect?
    You must have gone on a private campaign to get 62 votes against. I think it's funny that libs are so concerned about Romney's welfare, enough to come in here and let him know he made the wrong decision. Trying to return the favor I suppose, when we thought Biden was a big mistake.

    I don't know if Ryan is the right man or not. I'm not feeling anything about it rigtht now.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  10. #210
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    Re: Paul Ryan, Help Or Hurt Romney

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Two questions: How does one enlist in the 'crusade?' And does membership come with any cool gear?
    I always wonder about people who spend so much time justifying the government taking more from OTHERS

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