View Poll Results: Should Older Unemployed Workers Get Social Security?

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  • Yes, it's stupid to force people to pretend to be disabled just so they can survive.

    13 48.15%
  • No, we can't afford it.

    11 40.74%
  • No, I don't believe older people have more trouble finding work.

    1 3.70%
  • No, we can't afford this.

    9 33.33%
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Thread: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

  1. #41
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    Boo Radley's Avatar
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It's still taking my money and giving it to someone else, because they don't have the gumption to get a job on their own.
    Sure, all but the gumption part. But, it really does help all of us to make sure there is no undue suffering. And the better we do it, with the most production possible, and the least pain for any of us, the better.

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  2. #42
    Educator / Liar Champion ab9924's Avatar
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Sure, all but the gumption part. But, it really does help all of us to make sure there is no undue suffering. And the better we do it, with the most production possible, and the least pain for any of us, the better.
    How do you reduce undue suffering? When I talk to people with operations management background, they all seem to say that the problem with old people is that they can't work except at their own pace. In today's world where businesses have virtually eliminated their operational "frictions", the worker that can turn on a dime for any customer demand is the winner. You can't expect a regular 10-12 hour workday from an old person. Even young people fail with this when competing against cheap outsourcing.

    The bottom line: when you turn 36, nature takes away 2 % of your hormones every year, giving you gray hair, wrinkles, loss-of-shape, and death (at the end). It is up to you how you manage your decline. But isn't it a loosing proposition to try to run upwards on this downward escalator? Let's allow old people to reduce their own life expectancy.

  3. #43
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by ab9924 View Post
    How do you reduce undue suffering? When I talk to people with operations management background, they all seem to say that the problem with old people is that they can't work except at their own pace. In today's world where businesses have virtually eliminated their operational "frictions", the worker that can turn on a dime for any customer demand is the winner. You can't expect a regular 10-12 hour workday from an old person. Even young people fail with this when competing against cheap outsourcing.

    The bottom line: when you turn 36, nature takes away 2 % of your hormones every year, giving you gray hair, wrinkles, loss-of-shape, and death (at the end). It is up to you how you manage your decline. But isn't it a loosing proposition to try to run upwards on this downward escalator? Let's allow old people to reduce their own life expectancy.

    First of all no one should be working 12 hrs a day ...it should be 8 and following your slly synopsis the world should be run by a logans run attitude...you become worthless at 30 and they just kill ya.....I have no idea where this new national attitude has come from....but I seriously dont like it...and im hoping most of america sees exactly whats going on

  4. #44
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    All of you people that think these mid-50's people can get jobs:
    Given a choice between a 25-year-old that used to make $20k/yr and a 55-year-old that used to make $50k/yr which would you hire for your $25k/yr job? How about a somewhat physical $20k/yr job? Or even an easy $16k/yr job?

    If any of you answered "I'd hire the old person" I'd suggest you've either never been responsible for hiring people or you haven't thought the matter through.

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    As I pointed out, I outwork 20-something-year-olds everyday.
    That doesn't matter to would-be employers. They take one look at your work history and unless they're desperate (which none of them are right now because of the 3+:1 unemployed/job ratio) they will not hire you. If it's the same profession or a closely related one they might take you but otherwise all of them figure you will cut and run back to your old profession the minute you get the chance.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 08-12-12 at 09:21 AM.
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  5. #45
    Educator / Liar Champion ab9924's Avatar
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    First of all no one should be working 12 hrs a day ...it should be 8 and following your slly synopsis the world should be run by a logans run attitude...you become worthless at 30 and they just kill ya.....I have no idea where this new national attitude has come from....but I seriously dont like it...and im hoping most of america sees exactly whats going on
    I think I know where this national attitude comes from. In fact, one of the Founding Fathers (Adams?) explicitely warned about it, when he wrote: "if big banks begin writing our laws then we will all be slaves on our own land". And this is exactly what is happening. In an unlimited free competition, every business just takes the next guy when the current guy goes under. Then, an army is still better because that has at least some additional connotation than only money, such as a nation. The USA has purposefully eliminated all of its labour legislations, so you are only worth what your employer needs to wait until finding your replacement. Samuel Adams was and is right with this one. America has and will never see this.

  6. #46
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    When Mexicans stop paying coyotes to leave their own country and stop risking their lives sneaking across the desert to come here for work then and only then will I take the supposition that you can't find a job here seriously.

  7. #47
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Over 50? Been unemployed for 1 year or longer?

    Many of my friends in that position are just dying on the vine, their only hope to qualify as "disabled" so they can draw SSD.

    Wouldn't it be better to admit someone with a less than 5% chance of finding work to the social security rolls without making liars out of them?

    What say you? Should there be a permanent benefit to sustain life for an older worker who is chronically unemployable?


    I finished a doctorate when I was 58. A 50 year old who has sat around waiting to be rescued by his government is not disabled. He is lazy. And possibly stupid.
    Last edited by Maenad; 08-12-12 at 11:21 AM.

  8. #48
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    When Mexicans stop paying coyotes to leave their own country and stop risking their lives sneaking across the desert to come here for work then and only then will I take the supposition that you can't find a job here seriously.
    I agree. There are jobs.

  9. #49
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I find it hard that someone, who is physically able to go to work, can't find a job doing, something, anything, even if it's picking up cans out of the road ditch. Relocate, if they have to, anything.
    The last time I was in the hospital I noticed a white collar looking guy doing janitorial work. I found that interesting so I asked his story. He lost his job as an accountant. So he called up the hospital and said, 'I need a job. I will do anything. I will mop floors. I will wipe butts. Whatever you can find for me to do I will do it.' Unemployable? I don't think so. No doubt if he had his 'druthers' he'd rather have been an accountant. But he was paying the bills.

  10. #50
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by cbaber View Post
    What have people been doing since the time of modern civilization? Suddenly we need to give money to people in this situation? If you are able to work, under 62, and just cant find a job that is tough luck. I could make up categories of people we should sympathize with all day long but that doesnt mean they should be added to government assistance. If you are in your 50's you should have a nice size retirement nest egg anyway. In an emergency situation you could always use that money instead of taxpayer money.
    True. They should be allowed to draw off their 401K without penalty. Many states have had money available for retraining. Anyone who didn't take advantage of it are fools. Also, there are some new peacetime benefits for veterans over 50. They can always look into that if they are veterans.

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