View Poll Results: Should Older Unemployed Workers Get Social Security?

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  • Yes, it's stupid to force people to pretend to be disabled just so they can survive.

    13 48.15%
  • No, we can't afford it.

    11 40.74%
  • No, I don't believe older people have more trouble finding work.

    1 3.70%
  • No, we can't afford this.

    9 33.33%
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Thread: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

  1. #31
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I find it hard that someone, who is physically able to go to work, can't find a job doing, something, anything, even if it's picking up cans out of the road ditch. Relocate, if they have to, anything.
    You're competitng with younger people today. It really does happen.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #32
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Over 50? Been unemployed for 1 year or longer?

    Many of my friends in that position are just dying on the vine, their only hope to qualify as "disabled" so they can draw SSD.

    Wouldn't it be better to admit someone with a less than 5% chance of finding work to the social security rolls without making liars out of them?

    What say you? Should there be a permanent benefit to sustain life for an older worker who is chronically unemployable?
    If the state can pay these people to do nothing it can pay them to do a job

  3. #33
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    But see, that "nest egg" is what they've been living on while they look for work -- after it's gone, then what?
    It wasn't much of a "nest egg" then.
    Sometimes we have to measure the costs vs. the benefit, in this situation a lot of people will throw their hands up because they can't find a job doing what they used to do, rather than take a lower job.

    I've got 60 year old men working with me, some that were trained in higher/other jobs, they did what they had to do, to earn a living.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    If the state can pay these people to do nothing it can pay them to do a job
    I'd accept that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #35
    Educator / Liar Champion ab9924's Avatar
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Over 50? Been unemployed for 1 year or longer?

    Many of my friends in that position are just dying on the vine, their only hope to qualify as "disabled" so they can draw SSD.

    Wouldn't it be better to admit someone with a less than 5% chance of finding work to the social security rolls without making liars out of them?

    What say you? Should there be a permanent benefit to sustain life for an older worker who is chronically unemployable?
    This is very interesting. I guess I can compare this with the European social security schemes. It appears that the US scheme is MUCH more generous than the European ones, but in the EU a lot more people are covered one way or another, typically the segment you are talking about.

    I am speculating here to some degree, but I think that there is a trend that the better technology is, the lower people's unemployability age gets. This is why Bissmarck invented the idea of social security in 1880's Germany, in the 1st place.

    Mathematically (my favourite class), the better the technology, the fewer people we need in the workforce to make the same money. So, this pushes the social security age upwards, in the opposite direction.

    Thus the problem is that we derive all social security funds/budgets from employment taxation, and squeeze life at both ends, as a result.

    I don't know how to work for a living and I don't want to find it out, but it must absolutely suck if you can't even afford a room for yourself, such as in the situations you are describing in the OP. People over 50 have no chance to get any control over their lives. Just like the over-60's of Bissmarck's Germany.

    This idea may be unorthodox, but in every country, it seems to be that unusable people were always successfully used in the national armies. Old people are useless at the frontlines, but could probably be of many use in the support roles such as cooks, drivers, clerks, etc., without pay, in return for a room and some clothes and food.

    There should also be a honest political premise to allow them to shorten their own life span if they so wish. Currently this is PR'd to be unethical and illegal.

  6. #36
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    Over 50? Been unemployed for 1 year or longer?

    Many of my friends in that position are just dying on the vine, their only hope to qualify as "disabled" so they can draw SSD.

    Wouldn't it be better to admit someone with a less than 5% chance of finding work to the social security rolls without making liars out of them?

    What say you? Should there be a permanent benefit to sustain life for an older worker who is chronically unemployable?
    From where do you think the money would come to support such a benefit? Fewer people working, generating less wealth, paying higher taxes to support a growing number of people not working or creating wealth, is unsustainable.

    I recognize the existence of the problem, but no “solution” is ever going to succeed that is based on increasing the burden on those who are still working and productive.

    Any solution that is going to succeed will only do so by making it easier for those who currently are having difficulty finding productive employment to do so.
    Last edited by Bob Blaylock; 08-11-12 at 09:08 PM. Reason: A man without a forklift is nothing. May the Forks be with you.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're competitng with younger people today. It really does happen.
    As I pointed out, I outwork 20-something-year-olds everyday.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #38
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_Dave View Post
    If the state can pay these people to do nothing it can pay them to do a job
    And, if they can do a job, they're not, "chronically unemployable".
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  9. #39
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And, if they can do a job, they're not, "chronically unemployable".
    They are "unemployable" in that they can't find anyone to hire them.

    I think the idea of the government paying them to do something useful has legs. I have a high opinion of the 1930's-style "make work" programs, like the Civilian Conservation Corps.

  10. #40
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    Re: Let The Unemployable Have Social Security

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkie View Post
    They are "unemployable" in that they can't find anyone to hire them.

    I think the idea of the government paying them to do something useful has legs. I have a high opinion of the 1930's-style "make work" programs, like the Civilian Conservation Corps.
    It's still taking my money and giving it to someone else, because they don't have the gumption to get a job on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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