View Poll Results: Should Americans have to undergo marksmanship training to be able to own a firearm?

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  • Yes

    8 14.29%
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    43 76.79%
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    5 8.93%
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Thread: Should Americans have to undergo marksmanship training to be able to own a firearm?

  1. #131
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    Re: Should Americans have to undergo marksmanship training to be able to own a firear

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    That's only because you are ignorant of what the pursuit of happiness is synonymous with. As for NAMBLA, not sure what you are getting at.
    Feel free to quote from the US Constitution where it explains that.

    The NAMBLA reference - I am sure that NAMBLA members would very much like a Constitution which protects their idea of pursing their own happiness. And that should tell you why such a "right" is ridiculous on its face.
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    Re: Should Americans have to undergo marksmanship training to be able to own a firear

    Marksmanship training? No. Gun safety training? Yes.
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  3. #133
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    Re: Should Americans have to undergo marksmanship training to be able to own a firear

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    James - how then do you explain that for a decade we had a ban on certain types of firearms and it was NOT declared as unconstitutional by the Court? And several states have their own bans on assault weapons and they have stood as constitutional.
    Has the supreme court actually heard the case and actually addressed the so called assault weapon's ban? I don't believe it has. It took 33 years for DC vs Hellar to be heard and declared unconstitutional, this could have been due to the fact it required perfect timing to wait for the political makeup of the SC to change and a lawyer willing to take the case. So other constitutional laws like these assault weapon bans may take awhile to be struck down.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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  4. #134
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    Re: Should Americans have to undergo marksmanship training to be able to own a firear

    Quote Originally Posted by Das Sozialist View Post
    May I ask all of you that oppose any modification to the second amendment and increased gun control:

    Do you believe those who are mentally unstable should be able to possess a firearm? If no, do you believe there should be a law prohibiting the mentally unstable from obtaining firearms? Why or why not?

    and

    Do you believe convicted felons, specifically those who commit violent crimes (assault, battery, murder) should be able to own a firearm? If no, do you believe there should be a law that prohibits those offenders from acquiring those guns? Why or why not?

    I doubt many here were a big a proponent of any effective measure that would reduce gun violence as I am, but in my view, almost none in use today and for sure none that you have suggested would pass constitutional muster, not now that we have a Supreme Court ruling that holds every American has a right to a own a gun.

    As for some blanket ban on gun ownership by felons or the mentally ill, neither group even remotely selects only or mostly people I see as hazardous. You can be a felon in the US for a vast array of nonviolent crimes, or you could have a single incidence of violence in your past that did not involve a gun and was never repeated. And even more obviously, you could be mentally ill in that you have have some paralyzing fear of elevators that severely limited your functioning but had absolutely no relation to what risk you pose to others of gun violence. To me, there's just no rational relationship between overall mental health and future risk of criminal violence.

    Ideally, we'd have some reliable predictors of who may commit such crimes and some effective means of eliminating their access to weapons in advance. In reality, we have nothing at all like this, never did, and likely never will.

    If gun violence can be reduced -- and to me, this is a big "if" -- in the US, IMO, it will have to be a secondary benefit of reducing factors we believe cause crime and violence in general. Yanno, poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunity, etc.

    All that stuff we also can't seem to get a handle on.

  5. #135
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    Re: Should Americans have to undergo marksmanship training to be able to own a firear

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Marksmanship training? No. Gun safety training? Yes.
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  6. #136
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    Re: Should Americans have to undergo marksmanship training to be able to own a firear

    Quote Originally Posted by Das Sozialist View Post
    You'd still be allowed to purchase and keep the firearm, you would just need to undergo training beforehand. Your right is not harmed in anyway.
    Pretty sure they said basically the same thing when they tried to prevent blacks from voting.....
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  7. #137
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    Re: Should Americans have to undergo marksmanship training to be able to own a firear

    Quote Originally Posted by Das Sozialist View Post
    May I ask all of you that oppose any modification to the second amendment and increased gun control:

    Do you believe those who are mentally unstable should be able to possess a firearm? If no, do you believe there should be a law prohibiting the mentally unstable from obtaining firearms? Why or why not?

    and

    Do you believe convicted felons, specifically those who commit violent crimes (assault, battery, murder) should be able to own a firearm? If no, do you believe there should be a law that prohibits those offenders from acquiring those guns? Why or why not?
    There are already laws and procedures on the books concerning the above, and you want more laws.

    There are pretty strict laws on the books against the trafficking of marijuana. How's that working out?

  8. #138
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    Re: Should Americans have to undergo marksmanship training to be able to own a firear

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And you do not get to make that call.
    I'm sure that Britain thought the same when we rebeled against them. To quote...

    That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  9. #139
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    Re: Should Americans have to undergo marksmanship training to be able to own a firear

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Contrary to liberal belief the purpose of the 2nd amendment was not so that people can hunt.It is so citizens have a means of defending themselves should there be an invasion,remove the government should it get to tyrannical, and to defend themselves and families.
    Fair enough.

    If I may ask, do you believe American citizens should be able to own rocket propelled grenades, or similar weaponry?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Your comparison is flawed. First off some of your rights include life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
    Pursuit of happiness is not covered by the constitution, Life, Liberty, and Property are. But those three rights are allowed to be taken away by due process. [1] My voting could not harm your liberty in any way, I am not the President/Congress/Senate/etc. and I cannot do anything to harm you directly by voting, whereas I can harm you and deprive you of your rights with a firearm. While both open a gateway for harm to occur, only the firearm provides the user a direct way to cause it.

    [1] - Amendment 14, Citizenship Rights
    Last edited by Das Sozialist; 08-09-12 at 09:22 PM.

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    Re: Should Americans have to undergo marksmanship training to be able to own a firear

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    There are already laws and procedures on the books concerning the above, and you want more laws.
    I know there are, my question is asking if you believe that a law/the law should be in place preventing the mentally incompetent and/or convicted felons from obtaining firearms.

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