View Poll Results: Do you oppose Civil Unions?

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  • Yes

    8 21.62%
  • No

    29 78.38%
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Thread: Civil Unions

  1. #81
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Why do we need such assurances? Polygamy causes no more harm than homosexual relationships do to society at large. The ownership aspect may get a little more complex, but otherwise I see no reason to express concern over legalizing polygamy. There's really no logical reason I'm aware of keep it illegal.

    In the past, and present for a few cults, polygamy has been based on subjugation of the female participants. IF and it is a big IF, there were protections for those who chose to live in a polygamous marriage then I too can see polygamy being legalised. A major problem for the American fundie cults that are presently practicing polygamy is their treatment of male youth, too many of the boys are thrown onto the street so that the better connected, mostly older, men have more females to choose from.


    Then how about those women who choose to have multiple husbands? Would they be covered by the same laws that allow multiple wives?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
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  2. #82
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    *sigh*

    000000
    I admit it: I didn't read through the whole thread. Was this covered already?

  3. #83
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Marriages are a poor and ineffective arrangement as we know them now. "I'll love you forever" is one of the greatest lies ever told. How can you know that?
    I don't agree with you here. First of all, a marriage confers exacting legal interpretation of all things joint whether it be property, assets or children. It isn't so much about "I'll love you forever," as it is, "If it doesn't work, here's what we can expect."

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    You open up too many cans of worms with the "federalize" everything logic. Marriage is and always has been a state contract law issue.
    Not to be snarky, but so was slavery.

    To assert that MAN = WOMAN is very foolish and would make ILLEGAL many things including auto insurance laws, different physical standards based on gender, title 9 college sports laws and all sorts of "separate but equal" things that now benefit females/minorities. The idea of semi-equal or ALMOST equal has been accepted in many cases. Just what "civil right" is being denied? You have no right to REDEFINE marriage, to include either SSM, polygamy, bigamy or polyamory. If the STATE marriage law says "one man and one woman" that is intentionally different than "two people", just as an auto insurance rate based on gender, a military "unisex" position requiring different physical standards based on gender or having "separate but equal" restrooms or boy/girl scouts.
    I'm not talking about anything other than same-sex marriage. Throwing other forms of illegal marriages into the mix isn't helpful. You use the term "Separate But Equal." Yes, that's it exactly. Separate. But. Equal. You know, in truth, most people don't give a tinker's dam about SSM. It's much ado about nothing. I understand it's interesting to debate. Fun to take a firm stand against change. But, in actuality? In the big scheme of things? What the hell's the difference?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  4. #84
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    DVSentinel wrote something about the article I had linked to on same sex behaviour and used the phrase "genetic defect"

    "genetic defect" or a genetic difference? I have to ask if you read the full article.

    By emphasising the genetic aspect you would seem to be arguing that same-sex preferences are genetically determined unlike many of those who oppose LGBT issues because they seem them as a "lifestyle choice"


    Your last sentence could be altered, in so far as humans are concerned, by reference to various well-studied societies thru out history. Classical Greek society often saw male-male pairs as true expressions of love while male-female relationships were based on power, property and progeny.
    I am not arguing that the homosexual prefrence is cause by any particular factor, we haven't studied it enough to determine that. I doubt very much that pro-homosexual preferences will actually do that research, because if it is found to have a cause, then it can have a cure and could not be considered normal behavior.

    Sorry not buying your tale of Ancient Greece. For one, Spartans, while they did practice male-male homosexuality in a ritualistic form, it was Spartan law that all male citizens had to marry, a female. This would indicate to me that it was a practice for sexual outlet prior to being considered mature enough or capable of marriage. In the end, the Spartans really screwed themselves with many of their practices as the number of Spartan Citizens decreased while the number of Healots and other non-citizens increased. Perhaps there is a reason that Ancient Greece is Ancient and only select portions of their beliefs have moved on to more modern societies.

  5. #85
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    1) Would you like government to suppose God as well?
    Try saying that coherently now.

    2) Would you agree that children universally are entitled to male and female role models?
    I believe children are entitled to parents who care about them and take care of them. The gender of those parents is irrelevant as long as they do their job as parents.

    3) Would you read this peace by Russell Kirk on the value of religion towards society?

    Russell Kirk -- Civilization Without Religion?
    No.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #86
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    Re: Civil Unions

    I'm not opposed to taking the State out of the picture altogether, and having the state perform "Civil Unions" of two consenting adults.

    The problem you run into is that you end up not pleasing anyone. If you say that gay civil unions have the same rights, all you're doing is taking the word "marriage" out of the equation. You're bound to anger religious conservatives who don't want to give them the same rights. If you don't make it equal, you're bound to piss off the other side that you're giving gays "second best." Even "seperate but equal" has been struck down by the SCOTUS in other areas.

    I'm not sure how you make it work is what I'm saying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  7. #87
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Would you opposed to marriage between any 2 consenting adults being called a Civil Union at a government level for the benefits of marriage?
    For everyone? Sure.

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  8. #88
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    Re: Civil Unions

    What I was trying to convey is that "marriage" is a contractual event. So, of course it covers all things legal. However, most marriages don't even bother to make pre-nup agreements so the marriage concept is pretty flimsy.

    I don't think we disagree.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I don't agree with you here. First of all, a marriage confers exacting legal interpretation of all things joint whether it be property, assets or children. It isn't so much about "I'll love you forever," as it is, "If it doesn't work, here's what we can expect."?

  9. #89
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Would you opposed to marriage between any 2 consenting adults being called a Civil Union at a government level for the benefits of marriage?
    I'm not opposed to it, because that's what many "marriages" are. A legal civil union between two people. Marriage is a religious institution.
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  10. #90
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    What I was trying to convey is that "marriage" is a contractual event. So, of course it covers all things legal. However, most marriages don't even bother to make pre-nup agreements so the marriage concept is pretty flimsy.

    I don't think we disagree.
    No, I don't think we do either, substanatively. Just chatting before Tom brings home some ground beef so I can make meatballs and sketti sauce.

    I'd point out, though, that Family Courts do a great job of enforcing the pretty linear contractural arrangement of marriage. There are specific laws about property division, child support, etc. that can only be over-ridden by a pre-nup.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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