View Poll Results: Do you oppose Civil Unions?

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  • Yes

    8 21.62%
  • No

    29 78.38%
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Thread: Civil Unions

  1. #11
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    I don't care...
    Then you're uncivilized. I don't talk with uncivilized people.

  2. #12
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    The point of civilization is to overcome imperfection, not relish in it. If language is always shifting, that means problems are never being solved, so we're uncivilized since we're forcing people to assume the risk of falling through the cracks.
    So what's your point? Perfect language and perfect society?

    Many good lucks on that...

    You just admitted the second point follows. Having some semblance of order is not having complete semblance of order.
    And having imperfect order is not having anarchy.

  3. #13
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    I generally agree with this argument.

    Get the government out of marriage all together.

    Give every couple, no matter sexual orientation, race, religion, whatever government recognition as a civil union with all the benefits therein and leave the religious aspect of marriage to those individuals.

    So if you belong to a church that will marry two gay people, great.

    If you're a church that doesn't want to marry two gay people... you get the picture everyone wins.
    Marriage is a contract. Just HOW do you get gov't out of contract law? Who IS responsible for the contract law associated with a "private" or "religious" marriage?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #14
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    If people want to say that marriage "evolves" over time, then language is unreliable. You might as well believe in total anarchy.
    Let's go back to arranged marriages.

  5. #15
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    Re: Civil Unions

    I don't think I understand how you get government out of marriage if you also want the couple to have full benefits, which includes survivorship, medical consent, joint ownership, insurance, and tax returns. Government is going to be involved as much of the benefit in marriage involves governmental interaction.

    I married my wife 26 years ago infront of a federal judge, no church involved.

    I am a married man, not a civil union one. I figure same sex folks consider themselves married not unioned, hell 'conservatives' can't stand the word union and southern folks still turn their heads and spit to get the taste out of their mouth when they say 'union'...

    Marriage is what it is and we should call it by it's name...

  6. #16
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    So what's your point? Perfect language and perfect society?

    Many good lucks on that...
    Thank you.

    And having imperfect order is not having anarchy.
    Do you know what "assume the risk" means?

  7. #17
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    That doesn't answer my question. Do you care what the government calls it?
    Yes, since it has value only under the NAMED contract terms, if you called a marriage a FUNFEST, and a spouse a BILLYBUD they would then not match other laws that refer to that contract/relationship status, so they would then lose meaning in context.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #18
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    Re: Civil Unions

    dammit stop derailing my thread. It is a simple question. Do you care what the government calls it?
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  9. #19
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    Re: Civil Unions

    The government must have some level of involvement in marriage because (1) it involves property, (2) more than half of all marriages end in divorce, which creates conflict over said property, (3) most marriages will involve minor children who, in the case of divorce, will also create a source of conflict.

    Since divorce is prone to bring out the absolute worst in the two parting individuals, and since most divorcing couples are historically unable to amicably divide the assets, almost all divorcing parties seek legal guidance to officiate the dissolution of the union and division of property/minor custody.

    Were adults capable of handling these matters civilly we would have no need for legal interjection into marriage. But since the available data suggests the opposite to be true, we cannot simply dismiss the role of the government.

    That said, I see no reason why religion should claim ownership over a word. Add a qualifier and you take away all of the confusion. You have legal marriage and religious marriage, both entirely separate and unaffected by each other. That said, if you seek a religious marriage but fail to also acquire a legal marriage, there should be no legal means allowed to you at the dissolution of marriage, should such occur. Just like religious marriage by itself should not offer any legal protections or benefits granted through legal marriage.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  10. #20
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Would you opposed to marriage between any 2 consenting adults being called a Civil Union at a government level for the benefits of marriage?
    On this side of the pond we have civil union which is in all essence the same as marriage, Scotland has already proposed that by 2015 same-sex marriage will be available and I guess the rest of the UK will follow by 2020 if not sooner. I'm in full support but I think it's overdue that a same sex couple can choose to be married as opposed to forming a "civil union."

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