View Poll Results: Do you oppose Civil Unions?

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  • Yes

    8 21.62%
  • No

    29 78.38%
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Thread: Civil Unions

  1. #111
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Marriage is historically a religious institution. Government licensing doesn't change that.
    Marriage stopped being a religious institution a long time ago. You can walk down all the aisles in all the churches you want, you're not married until you get that piece of paper from the state.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #112
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Marriage is historically a religious institution. Government licensing doesn't change that.
    And historically it's been a government one as well (along with a multitude of other forms of marriages not least of which was common law marriages, which had nothing to do with religion or the government). You are, however, perfectly allowed to claim that those marriages are invalid. I certainly can't stop you from doing that (and honestly have no desire to do so). But that doesn't change the fact that those marriages still remain real. In other words, your opinion changes nothing.

  3. #113
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    And historically it's been a government one as well (along with a multitude of other forms of marriages not least of which was common law marriages, which had nothing to do with religion or the government). You are, however, perfectly allowed to claim that those marriages are invalid. I certainly can't stop you from doing that (and honestly have no desire to do so). But that doesn't change the fact that those marriages still remain real. In other words, your opinion changes nothing.
    Never said that.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Never said that.
    Right. You said "marriage is a religious institution." Now unless I misunderstood you (entirely possible) I took that to mean that marriage is a religious institution to the exclusion of other entities, (government, common law or otherwise), and thus designations of marriage by those entities were invalid. Was I wrong? If so, what did you mean?

  5. #115
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Disagreements can be organized. That's why they're orderly.

    The problem here is people are mandated to accept something for what it's not. It's like calling a square a circle.
    But there is still an element of chaos in those disagreements. Order = agreement. Chaos = disagreement.

    Basically you cannot have one without the other.
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  6. #116
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Would you opposed to marriage between any 2 consenting adults being called a Civil Union at a government level for the benefits of marriage?
    I categorically oppose Civil-Union/Domestic-Partnership.

    No more half measures. We need to **** or get off the pot, "marriage" or nothing at all. Stop ****ing around. It's time we put this issue to bed so the People aren't distracted and can deal with real problems. Whatever you're going to do, just ****ing do it already.
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-09-12 at 06:56 AM.

  7. #117
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Why not? It's the same thing, why give it two different names?
    Because personally I think that getting gays the same rights as married couples that straight people have is what's important. I don't really care what it's called, and if calling it something other than marriage gets it done faster, then I'm all for that (as long as the rights granted by a civil union are truly equal to those granted by a marriage)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's like saying "it's all water, what's wrong with making blacks drink out of a different fountain?"
    I think some segregation is okay. After all, we have separate bathrooms for men and women don't we? That's segregation. Yes, it's treading on thin ice, but segregation is not automatically bad. The problem with racial segregation was that they were separate, but nowhere close to equal.
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  8. #118
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Because personally I think that getting gays the same rights as married couples that straight people have is what's important. I don't really care what it's called, and if calling it something other than marriage gets it done faster, then I'm all for that (as long as the rights granted by a civil union are truly equal to those granted by a marriage)
    That's like saying "I think that getting blacks water is what's important, so what if they have to drink out of a different fountain".

    Sorry, I just don't buy it.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  9. #119
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    Because personally I think that getting gays the same rights as married couples that straight people have is what's important. I don't really care what it's called, and if calling it something other than marriage gets it done faster, then I'm all for that (as long as the rights granted by a civil union are truly equal to those granted by a marriage)

    I think some segregation is okay. After all, we have separate bathrooms for men and women don't we? That's segregation. Yes, it's treading on thin ice, but segregation is not automatically bad. The problem with racial segregation was that they were separate, but nowhere close to equal.
    The entire point of segregation is that one party gets a crappier end of the stick than another. If both ends of the stick were equally clean, there wouldn't be a need for segregation. In this case the crappier end is the loss of the totality of what "marriage" conveys, which is a symbol of love and life-time commitment legitimized in the eyes of the community, among other things. "Civil Union" hilariously falls short when compared to the historical breadth of what the word "marriage" has come to mean, otherwise there wouldn't be people who are trying to hoard the word for themselves.

    Segregation always shares at least one common aspect with religion: just as no one ever claims that it's people of the other faith that are chosen in the eyes of God, so too do those in favor of segregation never argue that it should be the other people who should get the better end of the treatment. Convenient, huh?

  10. #120
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    Re: Civil Unions

    Civil.unions for everybody.

    Marriage from the belief system of your choice.

    Piss everybody off and put an end to all the nonsense.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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