View Poll Results: Which right holds sway?

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  • 2nd Amendment

    17 21.52%
  • Property Rights

    62 78.48%
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Thread: Which right holds sway?

  1. #71
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Does the business get to CHOOSE whether to comply with OSHA safety regulations or not? No.

    CHOOSE whether to comply with Equal Opportunity hiring and promotion practices? No.

    CHOOSE whether to discriminate in serving customers based on race, creed, gender or orientation? No.
    The first part of my statement said "barring legal requirements" so none of this is relevant.

    Therefore, IMO, do they get to CHOOSE whether I will be allowed to travel to and from work, and any stops along the way, and arrive home after work armed or disarmed? No.
    You've stated this argument, but you offer no defense. Why should businesses not be allowed to choose to ban guns off of their property? If it's just because you think such bans would affect your safety, then why do the potential threats to your safety trump their preferences for their own business. Why can't you just go work and patronize places that allow guns on their property and avoid those that don't?

    That affects my safety, and it impacts my 2A rights in too many ways.
    The 2nd Amendment applies to government not to business, so actually it doesn't affect that at all.

  2. #72
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    They don't have to do anything if they don't want to.
    I basically agree with this. I think it should be up to businesses to decide what to allow on their property and if they take a hit for that, then so be it. However, it doesn't make sense to force them to allow guns.

    But if they want to remain in business for any amount of time, it would be in their best interest to do so.
    Eh, that depends entirely on where the business is. In fact, I'm fairly certain that in certain places, businesses would attract more customers by banning guns on their property.

  3. #73
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    The first part of my statement said "barring legal requirements" so none of this is relevant.


    You've stated this argument, but you offer no defense. Why should businesses not be allowed to choose to ban guns off of their property? If it's just because you think such bans would affect your safety, then why do the potential threats to your safety trump their preferences for their own business. Why can't you just go work and patronize places that allow guns on their property and avoid those that don't?


    The 2nd Amendment applies to government not to business, so actually it doesn't affect that at all.

    Then I suppose Federal safety regulations and bans against racial/etc discrimination don't apply to businesses either?

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  4. #74
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Then I suppose Federal safety regulations and bans against racial/etc discrimination don't apply to businesses either?
    When did I say that? Are you denying that the 2nd Amendment only applies to the government?

    Also, what happened to responding to the part of my post that actually has to do with the topic of thread? Why is it that you always tend to pick out the most irrelevant part of people's posts, respond to them with something snarky and offer nothing of substance?

  5. #75
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Again, your HOME is one thing... that is TRULY private property.


    Your BUSINESS where you deliberately invite others in (employees and customers) is a slightly different matter. Yes, you own it but it isn't an entirely PRIVATE space... it isn't a PUBLIC space either but it is a SHARED SPACE... if you don't share it with customers and employees you dont make any money, which is why you're there.

    I own my home. My teenage son lives here with me. "My house my rules".... well yes, but I want him here with me and if I make rules that are ****ing stupid I may not be sharing my private space anymore... I'll be alone.

    The business owner WANTS employees and customers to come onto his property.... well, fine, but he may have to make a few small concessions to THEIR needs if he wants to do business.

    Again, HOME is one thing, BUSINESS is a slightly different thing. A business has to make some accomodation for employees and customers... like obeying OSHA rules for employee safety and comfort, yes? Like publishing HAZMAT data on any chemicals in use there, right? This is a very similar thing, but it not only affects the employees safety AT work but travelling to and from work and anywhere they stop in between.
    I'm having a little difficulty deciding, though I tend toward supporting the gun. However property rights are one of the few listed as unalienable, so where do we draw the line? On the other hand, life is also unalienable.

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  6. #76
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I'm having a little difficulty deciding, though I tend toward supporting the gun. However property rights are one of the few listed as unalienable, so where do we draw the line? On the other hand, life is also unalienable.


    here's the thing to me:

    If a business owner says I can't carry a gun inside his business, that is his right I suppose (though I think it makes him responsible for my safety vs criminal assault while inside!). The key point is he is only restricting me from carrying inside his business.

    The "no gun in the car in the employee parking lot" not only disarms me at work, it disarms me on the way TO and FROM work, any stops I make in between, and when I get home. He's impairing my safety and 2a rights not merely at his business, but AWAY FROM IT AS WELL.

    See my point?

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  7. #77
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Eh, that depends entirely on where the business is. In fact, I'm fairly certain that in certain places, businesses would attract more customers by banning guns on their property.
    Honestly, I don't think people care whether guns are on the premises or not. I have never checked to see if a business allows guns on their premises. That's just me though.
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  8. #78
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    I'm going with property rights. I don't think rights necessarily have a hierarchy that applies in all scenarios. However, rights do relate to proximity. The old statement, "my rights end where yours begin" really does apply here. As a property owner, you have the right to restrict access to your property for any reason you deem fit.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  9. #79
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    here's the thing to me:

    If a business owner says I can't carry a gun inside his business, that is his right I suppose (though I think it makes him responsible for my safety vs criminal assault while inside!). The key point is he is only restricting me from carrying inside his business.

    The "no gun in the car in the employee parking lot" not only disarms me at work, it disarms me on the way TO and FROM work, any stops I make in between, and when I get home. He's impairing my safety and 2a rights not merely at his business, but AWAY FROM IT AS WELL.

    See my point?
    I generally agree with this. I don't have a problem with banning them in the building. I do with banning it in the parking lot. I would have no problem with checking my gun in with a security guard at the entrance gate.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  10. #80
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    TO ALL: Thanks for keeping this a very civil and intelligent debate. This is one of the few subjects I have seen that hasn't resulted in people name calling, making fun of each other's opinions, or both. Kudos to all posters.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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