View Poll Results: Which right holds sway?

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  • 2nd Amendment

    17 21.52%
  • Property Rights

    62 78.48%
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Thread: Which right holds sway?

  1. #511
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The NRA has gone after a Tennessee Congresswoman due to her lack of support for a law stating that businesses should not be able to restrict employees from having a weapon on their property ie the employee having a weapon in their vehicle while it is parked in the parking lot. When I heard this story I initially wanted to come home and research it. However, I thought it would be more fun to put it up to debate. So what say you? Private property rights or the 2nd amendment? Which one holds sway in this case?
    NRA hits Republican roadblocks - Washington Times
    Here's the rub: both land rights and gun rights are property rights. Just as the building is privately owned, so is a person's body, and we're both in the public domain while doing business.

    To discover who is obligated to accommodate who, follow the money. There is a long legal tradition establishing that the party drawing a profit has the obligation. The party taking a loss is to be accommodated. Protected classes, various specific regulation not tied to the Civil Rights Act itself, and the whole host of OSHA and labor law show that the business is to yield to the employee and customer's rights, unless doing so would cause a demonstratable damage.
    Last edited by Jerry; 09-21-12 at 08:27 PM.

  2. #512
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Did you know that we have an inalienable right to protect our private property?
    I did, and since my body is my property, I reserve the right to protect it.

  3. #513
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    But since you have been touting and protecting the NRA and are indeed a lifetime member of the NRA I would halfway expect that you are speaking for the NRA as a member. You would do well then to determine that you are speaking personally when speaking about your own opinions. And to point out when you are representing your club.
    As a member, I 'represent' the NRA about as much as I 'represent' Sam'sClub or DebatePolitics.com. My Battle.net account does not mean I speak for Blizzard, either.

    I referenced the NRA because finding a self-defense policy ride-along for liability is very difficult.

  4. #514
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by fredmertzz View Post
    I agree with your premise that self-defense is inalienable. I don't immediately follow the logic of how that invalidates my argument.

    But after some thought, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I see what you're trying to say: that our right to have the ability to defend ourselves with lethal force is inalienable. (A subtle difference, but an important one I think... here's why: )

    Again, I would suggest that if this is the case, and it is true that inalienable rights are inherent to being alive, that you have that right simply by living, then we as a society have a responsibility to arm our citizens. Because we do not do this, this right to defend yourself with lethal force is a civil right, not an inalienable right.
    Unfortunately that doesn't fit the actual definitions for what each right is.

  5. #515
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The NRA has gone after a Tennessee Congresswoman due to her lack of support for a law stating that businesses should not be able to restrict employees from having a weapon on their property ie the employee having a weapon in their vehicle while it is parked in the parking lot. When I heard this story I initially wanted to come home and research it. However, I thought it would be more fun to put it up to debate. So what say you? Private property rights or the 2nd amendment? Which one holds sway in this case?
    NRA hits Republican roadblocks - Washington Times
    The employer owns the property, the employee chooses to work there. Property rights, obviously. The property owner is not congress and therefore has no restriction against prohibiting the bearing of arms on his own property. By the way, he should also be able to hire and fire anyone he wants and serve anyone he wants on his own property and with his own property.
    Get informed: UNICEF foreign adoption policy is killing orphans and the US gives $132 million to UNICEF every year. Stop the madness.
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  6. #516
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    The employer owns the property, the employee chooses to work there. Property rights, obviously.
    The employee owns their body, the employer chooses to do business with the public. Property rights, obviously, guns must be allowed.

  7. #517
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Obviously, property rights trumps 2nd Amendment rights in this specific scenario. Unless it is a public building it is the discretion of the owner what is allowed on the premises and what is not within the limits of the law. US citizens are entitled to fair laws because the entire country is under their jurisdiction, but people are not forced to be on my property. They only enter my property with my permission, so they have to abide by my rules or they have no right to be here. If they are here without me allowing them to be here or against my specific wishes they are trespassing, and the government can prosecute them for that.

    If the 2nd Amendment rights trump property rights, then logically all the the other BOR do as well. Forums cannot regulate what is posted as that is violating freedom of speech. Anyone can publish anything in a newspaper, freedom of the press.
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  8. #518
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by MadLib View Post
    Obviously, property rights trumps 2nd Amendment rights in this specific scenario. Unless it is a public building it is the discretion of the owner what is allowed on the premises and what is not within the limits of the law. US citizens are entitled to fair laws because the entire country is under their jurisdiction, but people are not forced to be on my property. They only enter my property with my permission, so they have to abide by my rules or they have no right to be here. If they are here without me allowing them to be here or against my specific wishes they are trespassing, and the government can prosecute them for that.

    If the 2nd Amendment rights trump property rights, then logically all the the other BOR do as well. Forums cannot regulate what is posted as that is violating freedom of speech. Anyone can publish anything in a newspaper, freedom of the press.
    Before getting up on your soap box about freedom, etc, check your local laws. In Florida, for example, private business owners are fined if they remove you simply for legally carrying a gun. I believe it's $5,000 per offence.

    What a person carries on their body is non of your business unless it's going to harm you. A holstered gun is safer than the car you walk in front of in the cross-walk.

  9. #519
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    As a member, I 'represent' the NRA about as much as I 'represent' Sam'sClub or DebatePolitics.com. My Battle.net account does not mean I speak for Blizzard, either.

    I referenced the NRA because finding a self-defense policy ride-along for liability is very difficult.
    So are you defending and supporting the NRA or not?


    BTW the right to protect private property is an inalienable right.

    What is property?
    So, what is property and why is it a human right? Currently most people view property as a parcel of land and “private property” is defined as the ownership of that land. Yes this is an important aspect of property and if someone owns private property, then he should have the right to do with that property as he will. Property development and management is an important aspect of that right that should never be infringed.
    [.....]
    Property and capitalism
    Without the protection of property rights, capitalism either could not exist or would not be the vibrant part of the economy it is today. America has been the world’s innovation leader for the last 150 years precisely because people know that the money they make from their ideas and hard work belongs to them and not to the government. Unlike most other countries, America has very few and exceptional situations where an industry or company has been nationalized and usually those instances were temporary; the railroads were nationalized during World War I but reverted to private ownership after the war.

    The right to own and control your own property is vital for a healthy country and our founding fathers recognized it as one of the major inalienable rights, right up there with Life, Liberty, and of course the Pursuit of Happiness.
    Why is the Right to Property an Inalienable Right? | Critical. Internet. Journalism.

  10. #520
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Before getting up on your soap box about freedom, etc, check your local laws. In Florida, for example, private business owners are fined if they remove you simply for legally carrying a gun. I believe it's $5,000 per offence.
    That law's not reasonable, 'm not even necessarily talking about businesses, even just my own personal property. Even though I support relatively lax gun laws I would not invite people to come with even a 9mm at say, a child's birthday party. If someone did arrive with a gun, but I knew he had no malicious intent I'd politely ask him to put the gun in his car.

    What a person carries on their body is non of your business unless it's going to harm you. A holstered gun is safer than the car you walk in front of in the cross-walk.
    The thing is, what someone brings onto my property is my business. I can tell people they can't smoke in m house or bring in Burmese pythons. Since they can only enter my property with my permission, I can tell them what or what not to do. I don't necessarily agree with the business owner's decision but I recognize his right to control what belongs to him.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hah. If someone put me in their sig, I'd never know. I have sigs off.

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