View Poll Results: Which right holds sway?

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  • 2nd Amendment

    17 21.52%
  • Property Rights

    62 78.48%
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Thread: Which right holds sway?

  1. #471
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    The NRA has gone after a Tennessee Congresswoman due to her lack of support for a law stating that businesses should not be able to restrict employees from having a weapon on their property ie the employee having a weapon in their vehicle while it is parked in the parking lot. When I heard this story I initially wanted to come home and research it. However, I thought it would be more fun to put it up to debate. So what say you? Private property rights or the 2nd amendment? Which one holds sway in this case?
    NRA hits Republican roadblocks - Washington Times
    Private property rights undue carrying a gun.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  2. #472
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Private property rights undue carrying a gun.
    If this were true, then employees couldn't store a gun in their car.

    This alone proves your premise false.

  3. #473
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If this were true, then employees couldn't store a gun in their car.

    This alone proves your premise false.
    What premise?? the average person can't take a gun into a federal or state facility either. If you show up at my door, and you work for -- the phone company, and you're packing heat that I can see; you're not coming on my property. And you know what? I win!
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  4. #474
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    What premise?
    This one:
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Private property rights undue carrying a gun.
    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    the average person can't take a gun into a federal or state facility either.
    That's government property, not a private business, so that's not what we're talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    If you show up at my door, and you work for -- the phone company, and you're packing heat that I can see; you're not coming on my property. And you know what? I win!
    That's a residence, not a private business, so that's no what we're talking about.

  5. #475
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    This one:



    That's government property, not a private business, so that's not what we're talking about.


    That's a residence, not a private business, so that's no what we're talking about.
    A private business is private property! If they say "no skirts at work"; guess what? the girls wear pants. If a private business says "no guns on the property", then guess what? no guns on the property. And thay can call the police and have you escorted off the property and get a restraining order in a heartbeat to keep you and your gun from coming back.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

  6. #476
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    A private business is private property!
    Not all private property is the same. Privately owned does not mean privately controlled, as is the case with publicly traded corporations. Residences are not subject to OSHA, Public Accommodation, Equal-Opportunity Employment or a host of other regulations which private businesses are.

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    And thay can call the police and have you escorted off the property and get a restraining order in a heartbeat to keep you and your gun from coming back.
    In Florida, my earlier example, if you kick someone out of your business simply for lawfully carrying a firearm, YOU will be in legal trouble, not the person with the gun. Every state is different. In TX and OH ignoring a gun-buster sign is criminal trespassing, while in SD and CO it's not, you couldn't even get a restraining order for it. In OR you can carry even into post offices, police stations and all school grounds.

    So check with your local laws because there is no national standard.
    Last edited by Jerry; 09-19-12 at 01:55 AM.

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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Not all private property is the same. Privately owned does not mean privately controlled, as is the case with publicly traded corporations. Residences are not subject to OSHA, Public Accommodation, Equal-Opportunity Employment or a host of other regulations which private businesses are.



    In Florida, my earlier example, if you kick someone out simply for lawfully carrying a firearm, YOU will be in legal trouble, not the person with the gun. Every state is different. In TX, it's criminal trespassing, in SD, it's not, you couldn't even get a restraining order for it. So check with your local laws because there is no national standard.
    Okay; you walk into the Empire State building wearing a gun and watch what happens.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Okay; you walk into the Empire State building wearing a gun and watch what happens.
    I'm not a resident of NY, so I'm not allowed to own or posses a firearm in that state at all. Only law enforcement, military and certain individuals who can demonstrate "proper cause" may actually carry a firearm on their person anywhere in the state of NY, private property or otherwise.

    To contrast: in my state, you can carry a firearm openly just about anywhere, and this is perfectly legal. No permit required.

    http://www.handgunlaw.us/
    Last edited by Jerry; 09-19-12 at 02:04 AM.

  9. #479
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I'm not a resident of NY, so I'm not allowed to own or posses a firearm in that state at all. Only law enforcement, military and certain individuals who can demonstrate "proper cause" may actually carry a firearm on their person anywhere in the state of NY, private property or otherwise.

    To contrast: in my state, you can carry a firearm openly just about anywhere, and this is perfectly legal. No permit required.

    Handgunlaw.us
    Uh, Jerry? I'm not arguing the legality of carrying a weapon. I'm saying that, if a private property owner in any state says that you can't bring a gun onto the property: then you can't bring a gun onto the property - period.
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by jet57 View Post
    Uh, Jerry? I'm not arguing the legality of carrying a weapon. I'm saying that, if a private property owner in any state says that you can't bring a gun onto the property: then you can't bring a gun onto the property - period.
    That's not true. Check with your local laws.

    In Florida, my earlier example, if the owner says I can't bring a gun onto their property, the owner is braking the law and I will be allowed to carry against their will.

    In many states where gun-buster signs are not backed by the law, if the owner doesn't spot a concealed firearm, they can't do anything about it. It's not illegal.

    Additionally, many states protect the employee's right to store a firearm in their car. You can scream and cry all day but you still can't stop the employee from bringing the firearm onto your property while stored in their car. Yes, it's you're private property, your name on the deed/title, and they can still bring a gun against your expressed objection.

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