View Poll Results: Which right holds sway?

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  • 2nd Amendment

    17 21.52%
  • Property Rights

    62 78.48%
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Thread: Which right holds sway?

  1. #341
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Dairy Queen employee shoots, kills sword-wielding robber, police say - Las Vegas Sun News

    So you're all saying a private property owner has the right...to require me to be cut into pieces?

    Surly you can see how that "right" is invalid.

    "A basic human right is self-defense"
    I can see the sticky widget you got with the peddle bike scenario. It bites. I guess without any laws in place it comes down to seeing if the employer or commercial entity can accomidate you. As for locker requirement I am loath to make laws that make people do something, though I can see where one might be required. I think the best way to solve this is to have the liability for any incidents fall on the entity for not allowing carry. Very specificaly not allowing their customers the tools to defend themselves, not providing adequate security, and negligent security practices. Let civil liability law hold sway. It will not be perfect for anyone but it probalbly will be the best solution. This way property rights are still respected.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  2. #342
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    I can see the sticky widget you got with the peddle bike scenario. It bites. I guess without any laws in place it comes down to seeing if the employer or commercial entity can accomidate you. As for locker requirement I am loath to make laws that make people do something, though I can see where one might be required. I think the best way to solve this is to have the liability for any incidents fall on the entity for not allowing carry. Very specificaly not allowing their customers the tools to defend themselves, not providing adequate security, and negligent security practices. Let civil liability law hold sway. It will not be perfect for anyone but it probalbly will be the best solution. This way property rights are still respected.
    I was confronted on another forum today, that riding a peddle bike was my *choice* and therefore I just shouldn't do it.

    My job, my employer in the Army requires me to meet a PT standard. I don't have a choice in that.
    I have a documented knee problem. I don't have a choice in that.
    I don't have my own stationary bike, money to buy one, a place to put it, or 24/7 acess to a pool. I don't have a choice in that.
    I can't go bike riding at a performance level that will challenge my cardio while my children are tagging along, nor do I have the money to pay a babysitter every other day so I can ride solo. I don't have a choice in that.

    Riding my bike to work after the children have been put on the buss is the best way for me to get my low-to-no impact cardio in.

    The same is true of my collage classes, but we're not debating carrying on school grounds here.

  3. #343
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I was confronted on another forum today, that riding a peddle bike was my *choice* and therefore I just shouldn't do it.

    My job, my employer in the Army requires me to meet a PT standard. I don't have a choice in that.
    I have a documented knee problem. I don't have a choice in that.
    I don't have my own stationary bike, money to buy one, a place to put it, or 24/7 acess to a pool. I don't have a choice in that.
    I can't go bike riding at a performance level that will challenge my cardio while my children are tagging along, nor do I have the money to pay a babysitter every other day so I can ride solo. I don't have a choice in that.

    Riding my bike to work after the children have been put on the buss is the best way for me to get my low-to-no impact cardio in.

    The same is true of my collage classes, but we're not debating carrying on school grounds here.
    Hey I understand completely, gun free zones are just markers for nut jobs to go do their killing. I carry openly in California a cap and ball type revolver using smokeless powder. I do it to get around draconian laws out here. I cant carry it a lot of places I go which bites. I try to get the places I go to to let me carry, and for the most part I have been accomidated. The people that dont accomidate me are the local Walmarts, and other corperate entities usually though there is the occasional mom and pop out here that dont like weapons of any kind. This IS California after all. That said I carry were I can, and where I cant I keep a very bright tactical flashlight and laser combo and a high powered taser so I have some sort defence. I practice with the light laser combo a lot so I can be ready use them tactically. I am also looking at a exteremly high decibel small profile horn defencive horn for area control. Ive seen videos of the thing making a charging grizzly do a 180 in mid stride, funny as hell and effective. I've been unarmed in war time doing my former job hauling fuel for our military so I am probably not as uncomfortable being unarmed as I have had to deal with it in active combat situations. Not fun. That said the thing I always told my crews was "Lose your head, and you lose your head. Keep your head and you keep your head." Johnny Jihad was fond of beheadings at the time, and I wanted to emphasise my point.

    I personally think we should carry everywhere, the only exceptions being bars, drug dens, and the actual courtrooms. Everywhere else should A OK.
    Last edited by PirateMk1; 08-20-12 at 02:48 PM. Reason: grammer
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  4. #344
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Private businesses have a right to restrict gun possession on their facilities. They have the right to post signs stating "This Is a Gun Free Zone". In fact I believe every school shooting and the recent Colorado shooting was done on such a premises...which means...it doesnt mean ****. But still...businesses have a RIGHT to make such declarations.

    However...my car is my car. Even the police have to respect my car as private property, even in a parking lot. I dont know how they would be able to justify preventing me from keeping a weapon in my car, even in 'their' parking lot.

  5. #345
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Private businesses have a right to restrict gun possession on their facilities. They have the right to post signs stating "This Is a Gun Free Zone". In fact I believe every school shooting and the recent Colorado shooting was done on such a premises...which means...it doesnt mean ****. But still...businesses have a RIGHT to make such declarations.

    However...my car is my car. Even the police have to respect my car as private property, even in a parking lot. I dont know how they would be able to justify preventing me from keeping a weapon in my car, even in 'their' parking lot.
    Just as your car is your car and employers have to respect it even while it's on their property, so to is your body you body, and employers should have to respect it even while it's in their building.

  6. #346
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Just as your car is your car and employers have to respect it even while it's on their property, so to is your body you body, and employers should have to respect it even while it's in their building.
    Not ironically...the only people that will FOLLOW those laws are the people they actually have NO REASON to fear in the first place.

    I read a few articles about this and one of the common 'type' comments I saw was "Do you want your pizza delivery guy coming to your door armed? What if he isnt satisfied with his tip?" Absurd questions. Do you want POLICE OFFICERS carrying armed? I think everyone would agree that at LEAST some of them dont have the mentality to be a cop...so do we REALLY want police officers to be armed? What if someone calls them a name or questions their authority?

  7. #347
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Why I carry into businesses and have carried to work regardless of private policies:

    Smoke Shop Robbery: Manhattan Beach Smoke Shop Clerk's Throat Slashed During Robbery - ktla.com



  8. #348
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Why I carry into businesses and have carried to work regardless of private policies:

    Smoke Shop Robbery: Manhattan Beach Smoke Shop Clerk's Throat Slashed During Robbery - ktla.com


    Good point.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
    I spit at lots of people through my computer screen. Not only does it "teach them a lesson" but it keeps the screen clean and shiny.
    Stolen fair and square from the Capt. Courtesey himself.

  9. #349
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Not ironically...the only people that will FOLLOW those laws are the people they actually have NO REASON to fear in the first place.

    I read a few articles about this and one of the common 'type' comments I saw was "Do you want your pizza delivery guy coming to your door armed? What if he isnt satisfied with his tip?" Absurd questions. Do you want POLICE OFFICERS carrying armed? I think everyone would agree that at LEAST some of them dont have the mentality to be a cop...so do we REALLY want police officers to be armed? What if someone calls them a name or questions their authority?
    Your avatar....man that was a while ago....MAX...I used to watch it all the time but for the life of me I can't remember what it was about. Same with Aion Flux(sp).

  10. #350
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Good point.
    I know a lot of folks take it as disrespect, that I'm shrugging off their private property rights, and I see where they're coming from....but it's not about disrespect.

    It's about self defense.

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