View Poll Results: Which right holds sway?

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  • 2nd Amendment

    17 21.52%
  • Property Rights

    62 78.48%
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Thread: Which right holds sway?

  1. #301
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    No, there'd be no expectation to reveal your martial arts training for exactly the reason you give at the end of your post. You can't leave it in your car.
    So, black-belt/Army-Combative is ok...but small pistol is a no-go....and the key distinctions between the two are range, and the ability to leave it elsewhere.

    Close-range and can't put it down makes it acceptable, range and the ability to leave it in the car makes it unacceptable....at least unacceptable to keep private.

    Is that about right?

  2. #302
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    So, black-belt/Army-Combative is ok...but small pistol is a no-go....and the key distinctions between the two are range, and the ability to leave it elsewhere.

    Close-range and can't put it down makes it acceptable, range and the ability to leave it in the car makes it unacceptable....at least unacceptable to keep private.

    Is that about right?

    Close. Martial arts and other combat skills that you are capable of are an innate part of you, rather than simply being a tool which you can use. If you are invited into a home, all of you is invited.

    Tools that you bring into someone's home to perform a specific task that they have asked you to perform are also naturally going to be acceptable.

    But tools that serve no purpose other than to maim and kill, which you bring into another person's hope without permission, are unacceptable.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  3. #303
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Close. Martial arts and other combat skills that you are capable of are an innate part of you, rather than simply being a tool which you can use. If you are invited into a home, all of you is invited.

    Tools that you bring into someone's home to perform a specific task that they have asked you to perform are also naturally going to be acceptable.

    But tools that serve no purpose other than to maim and kill, which you bring into another person's hope without permission, are unacceptable.

    Wow...Im not getting all the angst over the statement....If someone does not want you to bring your firearm in their home...you have two choices...dont bring it in their home or stay out of their home.....Is that a wild and farfetched statement or something ?

  4. #304
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Is that a wild and farfetched statement or something ?
    Not to me. I look at things as "Their home, their rules." I wouldn't sneak alcohol into someone's home, either, for the same reasons.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  5. #305
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Not to me. I look at things as "Their home, their rules." I wouldn't sneak alcohol into someone's home, either, for the same reasons.
    I agree tuck...I am a gun ownership advocate...but I stand by my home is my castle and you DO NOT do in my home what I dont want you to...so what would make me think that I could do in YOUR home whatever I wanted....I was flabbergasted by the response to my statment to be honest

  6. #306
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    How can you trust the work we're doing, then?


    Isn't that the entire point of carrying concealed?



    Me: "Hi, my name is Jerry, this is Bob, we're with Zombie Fortress General Contractors here to work on your secret underground Nazi-super-science genetic lab and massage parlor."

    You: "Would you mind if I see your IDs, please?"

    Me: "Absolutely" *hands you driver's license* "Please feel free to contact my boss and verify our work permit. Would you mind if we set up in your drive way meanwhile?"


    Even in castle doctrine states, you can't just pull a gun like that. I would have to be trespassing, which I wouldn't be, and I would have to be committing a felony while trespassing, which I wouldn't be. If you aren't in a castle doctrine state, then I would have to be committing a "forcible felony" and/or immediately threatening someone's life, which I wouldn't be.
    I don’t care if you have a permit from the government to carry a concealed weapon. When you step onto MY property you better get MY permission to carry that weapon or I WILL take you down.

    The police may not charge you with a crime but they will take you off of my property, than tell you not to come back.

    P.S. breaking MY gun laws on MY property might just get you shot.
    COMEDY 4 ALL! it's a life Philosophy.

    Chuck Norris once got bit by a king cobra. after five days of agonizing pain, the cobra died!

  7. #307
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Law enforcement cannot just do whatever they want on private property either. In fact you can deny them entry onto the property altogether and they will need a warrant from a judge to come back. That is unless they observed you breaking a law of some sort. But still they do not have the freedom to do whatever they want.

    If I can turn the police away I can turn a regular citizen away as well. Just because you have a concealed weapons permit does not give you special rights that are above my rights as a property owner.


    If I hire you to do something on my property, it means that I invited you onto my property. This also means that I can uninvite you at my discretion. If you brought a firearm with you and did not believe that you needed permission you were naively mistaken. I already showed you that by law in New Mexico I can tell you to leave and the only thing that you can do from there is leave. And if you do not leave I will assume that you are a threat. In that case I will secure my property as I see fit while I wait for the police to come and take you away. And that time you will be banned from my property. Next I would call your employer and tell them that you are never allowed on my property again. After I explain to them that you had a gun and refused to leave my property.

    Gun owners like yourself make it hard on the rest of us gun owners. You speak of training with firearms but several times you have expressed the need to protect yourself for wild dogs and that you even shot some. And you even said that you have pulled a gun on people. Im sure that it was all legal and justified (thats not sarcasm) but heres the problem you seem to think that you have the right to shoot anyone you want in self defense and even worse you want the right to do it on my property. That goes beyond just carrying a holstered weapon. You are actually saying that you have done it before and intend to do it again wherever you want.

    SO I must assume that all people carrying guns may be like you, for my own safety and the safety of others. This doesnt bide well with me since I believe that there are many responsible gun owners in this country. But the reality is that not all gun owners are responsible. ANd because of that fact I need to have the right to decide if I want a gun owner on my property with a gun and if it is a safe thing to do. With out that right I am powerless to protect myself my workers my family and friends and my property.

    Another thing is that once you have a law saying where you can take a gun you will be forced to accept that there are places where it may be illegal to to take a gun. Once that door is opened its a open road to oblivion. The end result perhaps could be laws governing whether you can even own a gun since you live in X area.

  8. #308
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by comedy4all View Post
    I don’t care if you have a permit from the government to carry a concealed weapon. When you step onto MY property you better get MY permission to carry that weapon or I WILL take you down.

    The police may not charge you with a crime but they will take you off of my property, than tell you not to come back.

    P.S. breaking MY gun laws on MY property might just get you shot.
    Ok there e-thug, calm down, it's the internet, no one's impressed.

    So how about those questions? Care to answer them?

  9. #309
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Law enforcement cannot just do whatever they want on private property either. In fact you can deny them entry onto the property altogether and they will need a warrant from a judge to come back. That is unless they observed you breaking a law of some sort. But still they do not have the freedom to do whatever they want.

    If I can turn the police away I can turn a regular citizen away as well. Just because you have a concealed weapons permit does not give you special rights that are above my rights as a property owner.


    If I hire you to do something on my property, it means that I invited you onto my property. This also means that I can uninvite you at my discretion. If you brought a firearm with you and did not believe that you needed permission you were naively mistaken. I already showed you that by law in New Mexico I can tell you to leave and the only thing that you can do from there is leave. And if you do not leave I will assume that you are a threat. In that case I will secure my property as I see fit while I wait for the police to come and take you away. And that time you will be banned from my property. Next I would call your employer and tell them that you are never allowed on my property again. After I explain to them that you had a gun and refused to leave my property.

    Gun owners like yourself make it hard on the rest of us gun owners. You speak of training with firearms but several times you have expressed the need to protect yourself for wild dogs and that you even shot some. And you even said that you have pulled a gun on people. Im sure that it was all legal and justified (thats not sarcasm) but heres the problem you seem to think that you have the right to shoot anyone you want in self defense and even worse you want the right to do it on my property. That goes beyond just carrying a holstered weapon. You are actually saying that you have done it before and intend to do it again wherever you want.

    SO I must assume that all people carrying guns may be like you, for my own safety and the safety of others. This doesnt bide well with me since I believe that there are many responsible gun owners in this country. But the reality is that not all gun owners are responsible. ANd because of that fact I need to have the right to decide if I want a gun owner on my property with a gun and if it is a safe thing to do. With out that right I am powerless to protect myself my workers my family and friends and my property.

    Another thing is that once you have a law saying where you can take a gun you will be forced to accept that there are places where it may be illegal to to take a gun. Once that door is opened its a open road to oblivion. The end result perhaps could be laws governing whether you can even own a gun since you live in X area.
    Um, excuse me, but of the people participating in this thread, I'm not one of the 2 threatening to shoot someone only because I didn't know they had a gun.

    Kindly take a look in the mirror.

    Talking to Tucker has made me re-think my position. I find myself more agreeable to the other side. However, talking to you and comedy4all only further polarize my view. You should look at his posts and take a lesson.
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-18-12 at 10:13 AM.

  10. #310
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    IMO this is the crux of the divide: If you don't care about my constitutional right, why should I care abut yours? In other words, if you believe you should be able to arbitrarily suspend my right, why can't others arbitrarily suspend your right?

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