View Poll Results: Which right holds sway?

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  • 2nd Amendment

    17 21.52%
  • Property Rights

    62 78.48%
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Thread: Which right holds sway?

  1. #261
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    You come with too much baggage as a contractor. For safety reasons I would just not let you on my property period. But most likely I would not know about those things like gang members and your dishonesty and willingness to go behind my back and carry a gun anyways. Which is why someone may create a gun free zone in the first place to keep people like you that are dishonest and pose a risk to the safety of everyone else out of harms way.
    I don't ask clients about their baggage, either, and for the same reason: It's non of my business. How do I know you don't have a crazy X with a pissed off gang-banger friend who's gona show up while I'm installing your new cabinets? I don't, and I shouldn't ask, either, because that's not within the scope of my job and is thus unprofessional.
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-16-12 at 11:00 AM.

  2. #262
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    when you start taking personal responsibility for your choices, I'll be a grown up. Deal?
    At least you admit you're acting immature. Kindly take it elsewhere, though, some of us are actually trying to explore the issue.

  3. #263
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    I have always understood carrying concealed to be just that. No one knows you're packing, so no harm, no foul. Business owners aren't going to frisk you when you enter their property, neither are home owners.

    If you get asked to leave because of your gun, you're not concealing the gun properly, and you need to find a different way of carrying it on your person.

    That said, you should think twice about packing in a Bank, Bar, Jewelry store, or Courthouse. Some of those places might have a metal detector.
    When I get home I'm going to finish my degree. While at class I'll be sporting the rubber training version of my .38 snub to see if anyone notices.

  4. #264
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    At least you admit you're acting immature. Kindly take it elsewhere, though, some of us are actually trying to explore the issue.
    And at least you admit that you don't take personal responsibility for your choices.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  5. #265
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    No.

    You have to be 21 years old to buy, own or posses a pistol, so we're automatically not suggesting that highschool students be armed.... unless you know of 21 year-olds who are still in highschool.

    You will see pro-gun folks use the term "an otherwise lawfully possessed firearm" for this exact reason. An 18 y/o is not otherwise lawfully possessing a pistol when they then bring it onto school grounds, so they are excluded from our advocacy.
    Who said it was a pistol?
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  6. #266
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I don't ask clients about their baggage, either, and for the same reason: It's non of my business. How do I know you don't have a crazy X with a pissed off gang-banger friend who's gona show up while I'm installing your new cabinets? I don't, and I shouldn't ask, either, because that's not within the scope of my job and is thus unprofessional.
    Back when I was working for a contractor servicing homes on warranty, my boss occasionally refused to service houses where there was high crime. He simply said that it was not worth it to risk our lives to service those homes. He also instructed me to leave any property where the owner was being an asshole.

    Honestly, I have turned clients away based on assumptions that I have made about them. By now it comes natural for me to determine if there is going to be any trouble with the client. And since they all come onto my property and enter my shop, I have to make observations not only for my safety but for the security of my property and the occasional employee that is working there.

    BTW in just about all of the states that have the parking lot laws there is an exception for very small businesses i.e. people working from their homes or a small shop. In other words even with the laws that the NRA are getting passed I can still tell you to take your gun off of my property. And further if the property owner that is affected by these parking lot laws feels that there is a threat to safety they can still tell you to leave. I am sure at this point you will say what is the problem then? Well that would be that the NRA pushed for unnecessary laws that by case law allows further hedging of liberties by the government. It is the classic if this allowed then so is this example. What used to not be regulated by the Government is now by case law being regulated by the Government. What it does is give the Government power to dictate further what a property owner can and cannot do on their own property.

    If the Government can dictate to a property owner on their Constitutional rights, then whats next? Will other groups take this example and want their own laws? Freedom of speech is protected by the Constitution. Should there be a law that allows people to come into a business and let tell people anything they want, including stuff that would be bad for business? If the owner looses their right to make these people leave it could ruin their business.

  7. #267
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Who said it was a pistol?
    In states like Oregon which allow firearms on highschool property, the bearer of the firearm must have a concealed weapons permit. The only type of firearm these permits regard, are firearms which are made to be concealable, ie pistols. Not rifles. Federal law requires a citizen to, among other requirements, be 21 in order to buy, own or posses a pistol.

    Therefore, the only firearm an 18 year old could lawfully own and posses on their own, is a rifle, and since rifles aren't covered under CCW permits, no 18 yo could legally bring a rifle onto school property.
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-16-12 at 01:17 PM.

  8. #268
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Back when I was working for a contractor servicing homes on warranty, my boss occasionally refused to service houses where there was high crime. He simply said that it was not worth it to risk our lives to service those homes. He also instructed me to leave any property where the owner was being an asshole.

    Honestly, I have turned clients away based on assumptions that I have made about them. By now it comes natural for me to determine if there is going to be any trouble with the client. And since they all come onto my property and enter my shop, I have to make observations not only for my safety but for the security of my property and the occasional employee that is working there.

    BTW in just about all of the states that have the parking lot laws there is an exception for very small businesses i.e. people working from their homes or a small shop. In other words even with the laws that the NRA are getting passed I can still tell you to take your gun off of my property. And further if the property owner that is affected by these parking lot laws feels that there is a threat to safety they can still tell you to leave. I am sure at this point you will say what is the problem then? Well that would be that the NRA pushed for unnecessary laws that by case law allows further hedging of liberties by the government. It is the classic if this allowed then so is this example. What used to not be regulated by the Government is now by case law being regulated by the Government. What it does is give the Government power to dictate further what a property owner can and cannot do on their own property.

    If the Government can dictate to a property owner on their Constitutional rights, then whats next? Will other groups take this example and want their own laws? Freedom of speech is protected by the Constitution. Should there be a law that allows people to come into a business and let tell people anything they want, including stuff that would be bad for business? If the owner looses their right to make these people leave it could ruin their business.
    What's next? I don't know, curly-Q light-bulbs, maybe.

    Oh wait they already did that one....

    If you folks are so worried about your rights, then stop banning firearms. It's crazy, all you have to do is *choose* to allow firearms and all this legal action goes away. You wouldn't have to worry about future legal action or infringements if you weren't already infringing on others. So if you lose more rights in the long run, poetic justice imo. You got what was coming to you.

    A prudent and reasonable person would cut their losses and allow firearms so as to avoid these long-term ramification you speak of, but I guess since you aren't changing you mind that you don't truly care.
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-16-12 at 01:28 PM.

  9. #269
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    If I'm there as a social guest I would leave entirely. I have real credible threats against my self and family and there's nothing going on at your place which would justify my letting down my guard to those threats.

    Please understand that this is not meant to be personal to you in any way, nor is it unique to firearms. I would no sooner leave my cell phone in the car, either, because my child or elderly parents might have an emergency.

    My need to have the item is so great that I would be willing to cause tension in our friendship to keep it. I don't make the decision lightly, and I'd rather not have to make it at all, but if I'm forced into the corner have have to make it, I choose the item. Your gun-free house can't protect me from the very real gang members my ex-wife riled up. Your gun-free house can't protect me from the rabid wild dogs I've had to shoot in the past (which are the reason I started carrying in the first place).

    If I'm there as a contractor, I would put it in my car and look for an opportunity to retrieve it while you weren't paying attention. I need the job, so I'll make nice with the client, but I also need to be ready.



    I have a hard time conveying to people how nieve that statement is. I didn't ask for my ex to turn bat-**** crazy and stir up some gang members. Chances are I didn't specifically request to be sent to you house, either. I just take whatever jobs I'm handed, employers tend to like that quality.

    From where I'm coming from, I have bills to pay just like everyone else. I have to have a job, and carpentry is what I'm trained in. It takes to much time and money to completely re-train to another profession just to roll the dice and see if that employer/client allows firearms. If they don't, then folks like yourself would expect me to take a few more years and another $10,000 to re-train yet again. I end up in an endless cycle of training, never actually having a career, all because I want nothing more than to exorsize a specifically enumerated constitutionally protected right. Also, there are credible threats I need to be ready for. I feel, and this is just how I view my situation, that I'm in a survival scenario. I have to avoid detection by the employer and client while remaining ready for the ex-wife's angry gang boyfriend.

    The way I see it, non of this has anything to do with respect in any way. It has nothing to do with respecting you or my employer. Braking the rules has nothing to do with disrespect, either. To me, the entire topic of respect is completely besides the point.

    To me, it's about survival.
    I agree with your ability to choose to not go anywhere that would disallow you to carry your weapon.
    Personally I would not care if you carried a gun in my house if I was aware of it; my previous post was a hypothetical.

    If you came into my house as a contractor I would be fine with you carrying a gun if I was aware of it at the start and I trusted your company. If I had no foreknowledge of your gun, and then became aware of it I would at the very least discontinue your services (it would be a breach of trust). If I did not know or trust you well, I would use my weapon to hold you until the police can come to remove you from my property (after all I donít know how you might react to my confronting you about your gun).

    Your situation seems to be rather rare. You should do all that needs to be done to secure your safety.

    Showing respect will gain you allies, and showing disrespect will lose you allies. If you break the rules on my property than I would see that as a personal insult; this will make me less likely to care if someone comes after you. If you follow the rules on my property I will consider you my protected guest; if you are my protected guest than no one will harm you wile I am around.

    Respect will save your life!
    COMEDY 4 ALL! it's a life Philosophy.

    Chuck Norris once got bit by a king cobra. after five days of agonizing pain, the cobra died!

  10. #270
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    Re: Which right holds sway?

    Quote Originally Posted by comedy4all View Post
    I agree with your ability to choose to not go anywhere that would disallow you to carry your weapon.
    Personally I would not care if you carried a gun in my house if I was aware of it; my previous post was a hypothetical.

    If you came into my house as a contractor I would be fine with you carrying a gun if I was aware of it at the start and I trusted your company. If I had no foreknowledge of your gun, and then became aware of it I would at the very least discontinue your services (it would be a breach of trust). If I did not know or trust you well, I would use my weapon to hold you until the police can come to remove you from my property (after all I don’t know how you might react to my confronting you about your gun).

    Your situation seems to be rather rare. You should do all that needs to be done to secure your safety.

    Showing respect will gain you allies, and showing disrespect will lose you allies. If you break the rules on my property than I would see that as a personal insult; this will make me less likely to care if someone comes after you. If you follow the rules on my property I will consider you my protected guest; if you are my protected guest than no one will harm you wile I am around.

    Respect will save your life!
    Kind of hypocritical, don't you think? You so much as notice a weapon on me, and you imedialty pull yours? And you want to lecture me on respect? HA!
    Last edited by Jerry; 08-17-12 at 05:20 AM.

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