View Poll Results: Is the ruling listed correct

Voters
44. You may not vote on this poll
  • I am conservative and I think it is correct

    6 13.64%
  • I am conservative and I think it is wrong

    7 15.91%
  • I am a conservative and I do not know or am abivelant

    1 2.27%
  • I am a liberal and I think it is correct

    16 36.36%
  • I am a liberal and I think it is wrong

    9 20.45%
  • I am a liberal and I do not know or am abilvelant

    5 11.36%
Page 11 of 13 FirstFirst ... 910111213 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 123

Thread: Is This Ruling Correct?

  1. #101
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,815

    Re: Is This Ruling Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boring Bob View Post
    The ruling is ludicrous. Soon schools won't be able to rent out their buildings to churches on Sundays either (something quite common in my area). What the owner of a building uses the building for and what the school used the building for are completely separate, so unless the school subjected the graduating students to a religious sermon no unconstitutional actions were taken.

    7 years ago when I was in the high school symphonic band the school building wasn't finished yet, so we had to find another location in which to perform our fall concert. A local church offered us their auditorium for free if the marching band agreed to perform at a church event. Of course the school agreed. Not a single person complained about separation of church and state or any other B.S. We needed an auditorium, they had one, we used it. It doesn't matter that it was a church. Sure, it would have been a problem if we had to sit through a sermon beforehand, but the event we played at was mostly just a party.

    These situations are, from all available evidence, exactly the same. No one in my 2400 student public school seemed to mind. Why is it an issue now?
    those situations are even close to the same IMO unless you strip it down to bare basics, school activity in a religious place but a extracurricular activity as a band concert and graduation are not equal.

    Neither is your first statement equal either, the school renting their facilities to a religious group is not even close to the school holding their graduation at a church. Nobody has to go to the religious function because of graduation.

    Also while I dont think its needed for the ruling the HUGE issue is there were people there handing out flyers and basically recruiting, that makes the issue a done deal and the ruling even more spot on.
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
    Pro-Equal Rights / Pro-Gun Rights / Pro-Human Rights / Pro-Choice

  2. #102
    Haters gon' hate
    MarineTpartier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    01-04-16 @ 04:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,586
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Is This Ruling Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Well, we disagree on that. I see all the 'we don't want pictures that have symbols other than what we believe in' as a load of nonsense excuse making. Covering for the fear.
    What exactly is there to fear oh wise one? What could I fear of a mosque? Is it going to suddenly come to life and kill my family and I? Is it going to spew flaming Qurans at me? Is some sort of "Scorpion King" sand wall going to sweep in from Mecca because an infidel stepped inside? Uh, no. I don't want my son in a mosque, I don't want to be in a mosque (I've been in enough of them), and I don't want one of the best moments of my life to occur in a mosque. Why? Because I disapprove of Islam. And nothing more. You can call that intolerant all you want. I call it having personal beliefs that I'm in no way trying to force upon anyone else. It would be fifferent if I was okay with the grad in a church but not the mosque. That would be intolerant. I'm not good with either.
    Unlike you my friend, I've actually lived with muslims. I'm not talking going out on a few missions with them. I'm talking eating with, sleeping beside, sharing a toilet (if we had it) with, crying with over lost comrades (of US and Iraqi descent), LIVED with muslims for over a year. I have gotten up and left the room when they prayed. I have been through MANY Islamic funerals with them where the Quran was read and I was expected to close my eyes when a prayer was spoken. I am the furthest thing from intolerant of the religion of Islam. I simply do not want one of my son's best accomplishments at that point in his life to occur in the house of a religion that I do not agree with. Nothing more, nothing less.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  3. #103
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Last Seen
    02-13-13 @ 12:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    18,536
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Is This Ruling Correct?

    I think it's an OK ruling. If students don't agree with Christianity, do they go anyway and be uncomfortable? Do they opt to not go? If so, what do they do then?

    No, I think graduation should be held where it belongs: in school.

  4. #104
    Dungeon Master
    Hooter Babe

    DiAnna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    32,644
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Is This Ruling Correct?

    Just using a church building would not violate the constitution, imho. However, I agree with the court's ruling because this was not simply using a church building. It was using graduation as a church recruitment opportunity. That IS a violation of the constitution. I believe that holding graduations in a mosque or synagog would be fine as well... unless students were required to adhere to religious dress requirements such as yamakas and head coverings required of females in some religious venues, including certain Catholic and Christian denominations.

    A stripped out building is fine. A fully decked out church, synagog or mosque, complete with religious material handouts and religious dress requirements, not so much.

  5. #105
    Sage
    Arbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    07-12-16 @ 01:32 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    10,395
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Is This Ruling Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Because I disapprove of Islam.
    Cut out all the fat to get the heart of it. Just as I initially said... All the fat is just excuses.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  6. #106
    defected to kekistan
    beerftw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    kekistan
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 01:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    13,376

    Re: Is This Ruling Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    No not fear....In order to understand the reason behind the first amendment all one has to do is look to Thomas Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists 1802 where Jefferson speaks of a "Wall of Separation" between the feral government and religion. This was the thought process and framework for the First Amendment.




    Background

    "Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802 to answer a letter from them written in October 1801. The Danbury Baptists were a religious minority in Connecticut, and they complained that in their state, the religious liberties they enjoyed were not seen as immutable rights, but as privileges granted by the legislature — as "favors granted."

    Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

    Jefferson's reply



    To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

    Gentlemen

    The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and, in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" thus building a wall of eternal separation between Church & State. Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect,

    [Jefferson first wrote: "confining myself therefore to the duties of my station, which are merely temporal, be assured that your religious rights shall never be infringed by any act of mine and that." These lines he crossed out and then wrote: "concurring with"; having crossed out these two words, he wrote: "Adhering to this great act of national legislation in behalf of the rights of conscience"; next he crossed out these words and wrote: "Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience I shall see with friendly dispositions the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced that he has no natural rights in opposition to his social duties."]
    I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & the Danbury Baptist [your religious] association assurances of my high respect & esteem.

    Th Jefferson
    Jan. 1. 1802.

    Jefferson's Letter to the Danbury Baptists - Library of Congress Information Bulletin
    this wasnt the thought or framework of the first amendment,madison wrote the first amendment,jefferson only had some inspirational speeches that inspired parts of the constitution,but didnt write or even sign the constitution or bill of rights.

    madison was the largest contributor to the 1st amendment,madison and jefferson both agreed on govt and religion being seperates,but jefferson took it to higher levels.madison believe the govt should be influenced by,or fund religion.jefferson believed they shouldnt be in contact with eachother.


    the simple fact is the word seperation of church and state didnt come about until well after the first amendment was written and signed by a person who didnt do either.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

  7. #107
    Haters gon' hate
    MarineTpartier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    01-04-16 @ 04:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,586
    Blog Entries
    8

    Re: Is This Ruling Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Cut out all the fat to get the heart of it. Just as I initially said... All the fat is just excuses.
    You intially said I was intolerant. I have shown I'm not.
    Then you said I was somehow fearful of Islam. I have shown I'm not.
    What is it now? Where do you plan to move the goal posts? Because it would be the third time you've done so. You're issue is you don't know why you believe what you believe. You just believe it. That, or you are not articulate enough to express why you believe what you believe. Its not my fault nor my concern that you can't do so. Don't attempt to attack my stance and support thereof simply because you just believe something and can't tell me why. Also, you're SuperPAC like splicing of my comments is very misleading and, frankly, expected of you.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

  8. #108
    Bring us a shrubbery!
    tessaesque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 06:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    15,910

    Re: Is This Ruling Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I think it's an OK ruling. If students don't agree with Christianity, do they go anyway and be uncomfortable? Do they opt to not go? If so, what do they do then?

    No, I think graduation should be held where it belongs: in school.
    Just FYI: Most regular high school graduation ceremonies do not take place at the school. Schools rent out time at local community centers, colleges, concert venues, etc more often than not. Hell, even my cousin's graduating class of 40 people had a ceremony off campus (outside the Shiner Beer factory in Shiner, TX).
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  9. #109
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,815

    Re: Is This Ruling Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Just FYI: Most regular high school graduation ceremonies do not take place at the school. Schools rent out time at local community centers, colleges, concert venues, etc more often than not. Hell, even my cousin's graduating class of 40 people had a ceremony off campus (outside the Shiner Beer factory in Shiner, TX).
    not saying you are wrong because frankly I dont know but everyone in my area is held at the school on on the football field ive been to graduations in 14 different school districts so I wouldnt say thats true, id say it varies.
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
    Pro-Equal Rights / Pro-Gun Rights / Pro-Human Rights / Pro-Choice

  10. #110
    Bring us a shrubbery!
    tessaesque's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Last Seen
    11-09-17 @ 06:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    15,910

    Re: Is This Ruling Correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    not saying you are wrong because frankly I dont know but everyone in my area is held at the school on on the football field ive been to graduations in 14 different school districts so I wouldnt say thats true, id say it varies.
    Maybe it's regional? 'Cause in Michigan, Texas, and Indiana I've only known of ONE graduation ceremony that took place on district property.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


Page 11 of 13 FirstFirst ... 910111213 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •