View Poll Results: Do liberals "get it"?

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  • Liberals understand and care.

    1 16.67%
  • Liberals understand but don't care.

    0 0%
  • Liberals don't understand but care.

    2 33.33%
  • Liberals neither understand nor care.

    3 50.00%
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Thread: Conservatives: Do Liberals "Get It"?

  1. #1
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    Conservatives: Do Liberals "Get It"?

    Do liberals not understand you, or do liberals understand you but just don't care?

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    Re: Conservatives: Do Liberals "Get It"?

    For the most part it is a mirror. But many of the young liberals are ridiculous. They neither understand nor care why I am a conservative.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Conservatives: Do Liberals "Get It"?

    Liberals do not understand that there can possibly be a principled opposition to their ideology. Having convinced themselves that their ends are good and just and moral they view any opposition as too stupid to understand their intellectual brilliance or just plain evil.

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    Re: Conservatives: Do Liberals "Get It"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Liberals do not understand that there can possibly be a principled opposition to their ideology. Having convinced themselves that their ends are good and just and moral they view any opposition as too stupid to understand their intellectual brilliance or just plain evil.
    I understand the existence of principled conservatism just fine. I'm simply of the opinion that most of it is bull****. Libertarianism has its merits in some aspects, less so in others.

    However, libertarians too (at least most of the ones on this board), believe that their ends are just and moral and any opposition to their platform is simply the result of ignorance (i.e. the ironic claim that "you liberals just don't understand economics" all the while spewing Austrian garbage that is not backed up by any empirical data whatsoever, or that "you libs just hate freedom" without recognizing the fact that your conception of "freedom" is hardly the only one). Believing that your ends are good and justified at all costs is inherent to any ideology, so I don't know why you seem to believe that this is somehow unique to liberalism.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 07-28-12 at 10:04 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Conservatives: Do Liberals "Get It"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daktoria View Post
    Do liberals not understand you, or do liberals understand you but just don't care?
    I can tell you this, most of the time I don't understand you but it has nothing to do with my liberalism.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Conservatives: Do Liberals "Get It"?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I understand the existence of principled conservatism just fine. I'm simply of the opinion that most of it is bull****. Libertarianism has its merits in some aspects, less so in others.
    What sort of things do you consider bull****?

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    Re: Conservatives: Do Liberals "Get It"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    What sort of things do you consider bull****?
    I mainly take issue social conservatism, not limited to but including opposition to gay marriage, ignorance on race issues, ignorance on LGBT issues in general. I'm generally more sympathetic to pro-lifers than other liberals, but take a pragmatic view of the abortion issue.

    On economic issues I think there is more room for intelligent liberals and intelligent conservatives to disagree while both remaining reasonable, so I don't have as much of an issue with economic conservatism as I do with social conservatism.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 07-28-12 at 09:48 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Conservatives: Do Liberals "Get It"?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I understand the existence of principled conservatism just fine. I'm simply of the opinion that most of it is bull****. Libertarianism has its merits in some aspects, less so in others.

    However, libertarians too (at least most of the ones on this board), believe that their ends are just and moral and any opposition to their platform is simply the result of ignorance (i.e. the ironic claim that "you liberals just don't understand economics" all the while spewing Austrian garbage that is not backed up by any empirical data whatsoever). Believing that your ends are good and justified at all costs is inherent to any ideology, so I don't know why you seem to believe that this is somehow unique to liberalism.
    My favorite one is if someone disagree with a libertarian, then there is the inevitable lesson about natural rights. Here is a hint, people understand your philosophy but may disagree anyway.

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    Re: Conservatives: Do Liberals "Get It"?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I mainly take issue social conservatism, not limited to but including opposition to gay marriage, ignorance on race issues, ignorance on LGBT issues in general. I'm generally more sympathetic to pro-lifers than other liberals, but take a pragmatic view of the abortion issue.

    On economic issues I think there is more room for intelligent liberals and intelligent conservatives to disagree while both remaining reasonable, so I don't have as much of an issue with economic conservatism as I do with social conservatism.
    I agree with that. Many conservative social positions are based upon ignorance and/or mysticism which as an atheist I find a bit difficult to label as 'principled.'

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    Re: Conservatives: Do Liberals "Get It"?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    My favorite one is if someone disagree with a libertarian, then there is the inevitable lesson about natural rights. Here is a hint, people understand your philosophy but may disagree anyway.
    You are free to disagree with the concept of natural rights, but doing so makes any opposition to rights violations on your part morally baseless.

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