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Do you think water boarding is torture?[W:453]

Do you think water boarding is torture?


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Navy Pride

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We have probably had a poll on this subject before but we have a lot of new member so what do you think?
 
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Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

yes

sretcarahc 01
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

It's torture! Try it and see for yourself like Christopher Hitchens did..

Watch Christopher Hitchens Get Waterboarded

 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

There's nothing to think about. Waterboarding is by definition a form of torture. Can't imagine why anyone would vote no.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

We have probably had a poll on this subject before but we have a lot of new member so what do you think?

Torture: the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

I'd say it fits quite easily within that definition. So, yes.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Yes, I think it is. I also think that when someone is tortured, the information they offer to stop the pain can hardly be regarded as reliable. We've been round and round on this (as a country), and I think we, as a nation, are better served by always always taking the high road.

It's interesting that we can't find a drug that will work, though. Imagine the billions that would add to a pharmaceutical company's bottom line. I wonder if it's being researched.

I've heard of drugs that let people be easily manipulated, so I'm guessing we're probably getting closer. That would be a Godsend.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

We have probably had a poll on this subject before but we have a lot of new member so what do you think?

I hit the wrong buttom if anyone wants to fix it. It is torture. And we've called it torture for a long time. It is a shame some sought to take us down this path.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

We have probably had a poll on this subject before but we have a lot of new member so what do you think?


It could be construed as such, by a strict definition.

But "torture" can range from psychological tricks to things like pulling out fingernails and slow-roasting human beings over hot coals, or breaking them on the wheel as in the middle ages. As tortures go, water boarding is pretty mild. We do it to our own soldiers in SERE school.... they hate it but it does no lasting harm.

Should we be using it as an interrogation technique for dangerous terrorists who want to kill as many Americans as they can?

That's actually a tough question. If you think about 9/11 you'll understand the temptation.... if you think about how much worse bioterrorism or nuclear terrorism could be, you might find yourself considering things you'd never consider in everyday life.


In short, necessity and desperation are the bitch twin sisters of moral compromise.... and until your ass has been in a really tight spot, you don't know how far those two bitches may push you.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

If it is torture, it's more psychological than physical, and compared to, say, hooking someone up to a car battery with jumper cables, I'll vote no. Everything is relative and there is no question that these techniques yielded some valuable information.
 
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Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

If it is torture, it's more psychological than physical.

It's both, but psychological is often more damaging and longer lasting than regular torture. Something to consider when you tell those who were innocent, . . . opps.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

We have probably had a poll on this subject before but we have a lot of new member so what do you think?

I think you should give it a try on yourself and tell us if it feel's like torture. What better way to know than experience?
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

It's both, but psychological is often more damaging and longer lasting than regular torture. Something to consider when you tell those who were innocent, . . . opps.

I don't buy that for a minute. I could recover from the memory of being dunked in water a lot quicker than I could from having my ears cut off. Sometimes saying "pretty please tell us what you know" is not enough.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

After reading this thread, I have come to the conclusion that my ex-wife tortured me and violated my human rights. I'm going to the UN with this one! :mrgreen:
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

It could be construed as such, by a strict definition.

But "torture" can range from psychological tricks to things like pulling out fingernails and slow-roasting human beings over hot coals, or breaking them on the wheel as in the middle ages. As tortures go, water boarding is pretty mild. We do it to our own soldiers in SERE school.... they hate it but it does no lasting harm.

Should we be using it as an interrogation technique for dangerous terrorists who want to kill as many Americans as they can?

That's actually a tough question. If you think about 9/11 you'll understand the temptation.... if you think about how much worse bioterrorism or nuclear terrorism could be, you might find yourself considering things you'd never consider in everyday life.


In short, necessity and desperation are the bitch twin sisters of moral compromise.... and until your ass has been in a really tight spot, you don't know how far those two bitches may push you.

And speaking in terms of national security in a dangerous world, moral questions are seldom easy. I heard an interview with one of the head interrogators for the CIA (I think) at the time. He said that the number one reaction they got from using their techniques, including pushing, slapping and sleep deprivation, was surprise. These guys had been told that the Americans will give you a lawyer and a sleep number bed (ok, not quite). Once these guys thought we were serious (and I say thought because the tactics used were more to intimidate than inflict pain), they were more talkative.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

We have probably had a poll on this subject before but we have a lot of new member so what do you think?

Absolutely. As mild as it is, it's still using inflicted suffering for the purpose of coercing the release of information.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Yes, without a doubt.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Of course it is. That's never REALLY been the question. The question is should it be used, anyway? THAT'S the REAL question that people want to avoid. The question in the OP is a smokescreen.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Of course it is. That's never REALLY been the question. The question is should it be used, anyway? THAT'S the REAL question that people want to avoid. The question in the OP is a smokescreen.

Depends on the situation. It's usually more effective to beat the answer out of someone.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Yes it is torture. Kind of hard for me to understand how people can say that it isn't.

And we shouldn't use it for the simply fact that info gathered from torture is not reliable, people will say anything to make it stop. We shouldn't waste time, and possibly lives by using techniques that won't get us solid info.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

I don't buy that for a minute. I could recover from the memory of being dunked in water a lot quicker than I could from having my ears cut off. Sometimes saying "pretty please tell us what you know" is not enough.

False dichotomy, it's not a choice between torture, and asking nicely.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Depends on the situation. It's usually more effective to beat the answer out of someone.

In some cases it may be, but it's reliability is questionable.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

Does torture work?

"Debates about the ethics of torture are all very well, but does it even work in the first place?

"One of the interesting features of the torture debate is that many in the military and intelligence communities seem decidedly unconvinced about the effectiveness of torture. Ali Soufan, a former FBI special agent with considerable experience interrogating al-Qaeda operatives, pointed out in Time that:

When they are in pain, people will say anything to get the pain to stop. Most of the time, they will lie, make up anything to make you stop hurting them. That means the information you're getting is useless.

He isn't alone in this assessment – a number of former intelligence people have expressed similar views, and his words are echoed by the US Army Training Manual's section on interrogation, which suggests that:

…the use of force is a poor technique, as it yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say whatever he thinks the interrogator wants to hear.

The situation is further clouded by the fact that members of the George W. Bush administration made claims for the effectiveness of torture that have later been proven to be untrue. One such claim was that the water-boarding (simulated drowning) of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed produced vital information that allowed them to break up a plot to attack the Liberty Tower in Los Angeles in 2002. Slight problem - in 2002 Shaikh Mohammed was busy evading capture in Pakistan.

But enough anecdotes, let's look at the science. Why wouldn't torture be effective? Actually there are many reasons. Let's assume that we have the right guy, and that he does in fact know the information that we need. All we need to do is beat it out of him, right?

Well, no. Suppose I start beating you around the head, demanding that you tell me that Justin Bieber is in fact a supremely talented artist. Eventually, although it may take several days of torture to get there, you'll tell me what I want to hear, but that doesn't make it true."

"The scientific community has never established that coercive interrogation methods are an effective means of obtaining reliable intelligence information."

"In spite of decades of use, and ample opportunity to gather statistics, there just isn't any scientific evidence beyond a few dubious anecdotes to show that torture works."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/the-lay-scientist/2010/nov/04/2
 
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Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

And we shouldn't use it for the simply fact that info gathered from torture is not reliable, people will say anything to make it stop. We shouldn't waste time, and possibly lives by using techniques that won't get us solid info.

That's actually not true, and comes from a misquotation in the CIA interrogation manual titled KUBARK. What the manual actually states is that torture techniques can backfire if done incorrectly. It doesn't cause them to lie, because they know the consequences of lying. It causes them to shut down, and turn on the interrogator, which makes extracting any useful information impossible. Torture has to be used properly, in conjunction with good interrogation techniques in order to be effective.

Torture is an effective means of extracting information, it's why man has used it for thousands of years. The real question is can it be done ethically. The answer is no, however, there's nothing ethical about war.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

In some cases it may be, but it's reliability is questionable.

Sometimes. You don't just walk up to a prisoner tied to a chair and start wailing on him. It has to be done in conjunction with good interrogation techniques, by expert interrogators. If you don't know what you're doing, then you fail the mission, because that prisoner locks up, and you won't get anything out of him.
 
Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

That's actually not true, and comes from a misquotation in the CIA interrogation manual titled KUBARK. What the manual actually states is that torture techniques can backfire if done incorrectly. It doesn't cause them to lie, because they know the consequences of lying. It causes them to shut down, and turn on the interrogator, which makes extracting any useful information impossible. Torture has to be used properly, in conjunction with good interrogation techniques in order to be effective.

Torture is an effective means of extracting information, it's why man has used it for thousands of years. The real question is can it be done ethically. The answer is no, however, there's nothing ethical about war.

There isn't any real evidence that demonstrates that torture is an effective means of gathering information. Torture IS effective in getting a subject to do or say what you WANT them to say, but that may or may not be accurate information. There really is no way to truly test torture effectiveness as any "study" would be unethical.
 
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