View Poll Results: Do you think water boarding is torture?

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Thread: Do you think water boarding is torture?[W:453]

  1. #81
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I hate to say this but Justin Bieber's newest stuff isn't so bad.
    I wouldn't know. You must have teenage girls that live with you. Please say you have teenage girls that live with you.

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  2. #82
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Water boarding is a form of therapy... yes... definitely therapy.

    If it were torture, we would call it water torture, and not water boarding.


    There are times when words make all the difference, for all intents and purposes.
    It's like you're dreaming of Gorgonzola when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    We should rarely deal in absolutes. But there is an effectiveness scale. And largely, torture has problems when it comes to being effective (unless you want confessions because nearly everyone will confess, quilty or not).

    However, I completely agree with the rest. When we tried to excuse waterboarding and other measures we completely lost any pretense of holding the moral high ground.
    I'm so tired of this conversation about waterboarding and higher moral ground. "Torture" is always unreliable. It always has been. The only thing it guarantees is that the victim wants to feel less pain. We are powerful enough in terms of culture, economy, political and military (the latter being the only thing American politicians recognize anymore) that we do not have to resort to what has been historically defined as "torture."

    But the moral high ground has never been lost, despite the wishes of some of our allies, who in turn convinced enough Americans how evil they were. Did we have the moral high ground with Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Did we have the moral high ground as we made our dictators more powerful than the Soviet Union's dictators? And did a few waterboarding cases and few speeches make us lose the moaral high ground enough to stop France and others from begging us to lead and provide over 80 percent of the effort over Libya? Do not the Allied side of the world still seek our muscle and microphone to lead and direct global affairs?

    Until we become Nazi Germany, Tunisia torturing France, the radical, extremist, terrorist breeding Middle East, oppressive China and Russia....we will not lose the "moral higher ground." Though, the described ake it quite the effort to convince us that we are exactly like them don't they? It's up to us to surrender our identities to what they need in order to lift themselves above the garbage they perfected.

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  4. #84
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    Water boarding is a form of therapy... yes... definitely therapy.

    If it were torture, we would call it water torture, and not water boarding.


    There are times when words make all the difference, for all intents and purposes.
    LOL - sure, all in the name. LOL That's what we pin everything on; terminology. Indeed!
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  5. #85
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I'm so tired of this conversation about waterboarding and higher moral ground. "Torture" is always unreliable. It always has been. The only thing it guarantees is that the victim wants to feel less pain. We are powerful enough in terms of culture, economy, political and military (the latter being the only thing American politicians recognize anymore) that we do not have to resort to what has been historically defined as "torture."

    But the moral high ground has never been lost, despite the wishes of some of our allies, who in turn convinced enough Americans how evil they were. Did we have the moral high ground with Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Did we have the moral high ground as we made our dictators more powerful than the Soviet Union's dictators? And did a few waterboarding cases and few speeches make us lose the moaral high ground enough to stop France and others from begging us to lead and provide over 80 percent of the effort over Libya? Do not the Allied side of the world still seek our muscle and microphone to lead and direct global affairs?

    Until we become Nazi Germany, Tunisia torturing France, the radical, extremist, terrorist breeding Middle East, oppressive China and Russia....we will not lose the "moral higher ground." Though, the described ake it quite the effort to convince us that we are exactly like them don't they? It's up to us to surrender our identities to what they need in order to lift themselves above the garbage they perfected.
    I'm not sure how it's possible for us to lose the moral high ground if, referencing all the examples you've noted above, we've never really even possessed it to begin with. International politics is an inherently amoral game.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 07-28-12 at 02:19 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sig View Post
    Water boarding is a form of therapy... yes... definitely therapy.

    If it were torture, we would call it water torture, and not water boarding.


    There are times when words make all the difference, for all intents and purposes.
    LOL that's your argument? That the name makes all the difference? Well hell's bells I guess North Korea really IS a Democratic Republic that exists for the People! Why call it anything else?

    And to your point, it IS sometimes referred to as a form of water torture.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 07-28-12 at 02:19 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  7. #87
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    LOL - sure, all in the name. LOL That's what we pin everything on; terminology. Indeed!
    Don't we? I can use a deer rifle with a scope to kill a person, but calling it a "SNIPER" rifle makes it different to the ignorant right? How about an "ASSAULT" rifle that doesn't fire automatically? The word "ASSAULT" changes it all together to the ignorant. Without the word "ASSAULT," it's just a rifle that fires one round at a time....just like a revolver. And "Greatest Generation" allows people to dismiss nuclear bombs on civilian cities, right?

    It's always in the terminology. Ask any politician that relies on your vote.

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  8. #88
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    I wouldn't know. You must have teenage girls that live with you. Please say you have teenage girls that live with you.
    Can't knock it till you've tried it.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #89
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Don't we? I can use a deer rifle with a scope to kill a person, but calling it a "SNIPER" rifle makes it different to the ignorant right? How about an "ASSAULT" rifle that doesn't fire automatically? The word "ASSAULT" changes it all together to the ignorant. Without the word "ASSAULT," it's just a rifle that fires one round at a time....just like a revolver. And "Greatest Generation" allows people to dismiss nuclear bombs on civilian cities, right?

    It's always in the terminology. Ask any politician that relies on your vote.
    I think her point was that words shape perception, not necessarily reality. Something isn't NOT torture simply because it doesn't have torture in its name. That was her point.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  10. #90
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'm not sure how it's possible for us to lose the moral high ground if, referencing all the examples you've noted above, we've never really even possessed it to begin with. International politics is an inherently amoral game.
    Exactly. Our only preservation is that we don't enslave and plant the American flag. And that we run a nation truly about liberty and political expression.
    Last edited by MSgt; 07-28-12 at 02:29 PM.

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