View Poll Results: Do you think water boarding is torture?

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  • Yes

    114 77.55%
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Thread: Do you think water boarding is torture?[W:453]

  1. #61
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    The CIA isn't the Military. I don't think it should be abolished because it does work in certain circumstances, and war is not the time to go soft.
    They are still under the command of the president. You have provided no evidence that torture provides useful information. Tell me, did you support the war on Iraq?



    What proof do I have that they still conduct torture? Because they continued to do it for 37 years after being expressly forbidden to continue these projects by Congress. The only detainee camps that are known about are Guantanamo Bay, and Abu Ghraib, which are monitored. The unknown sites containing an unknown number of prisoners are not monitored or regulated, and what happens in those facilities is unknown. Given the CIA's long history of torture and human experimentation, what do you think they're doing in places where they have absolutely no oversight from Congress, the President, or even the Secretary of Defense?
    Thanks for your speculation. If you find any evidence to back up your claim. please let me know.

    I prefer a president that openly condemns and prohibits torture to one that openly supports and defends torture.

    George W. Bush Defends Waterboarding: Would Waterboard Khalid Sheik Mohammed Again

    "Waterboarding is a simulated drowning technique that the Obama administration considers torture. Bush acknowledged Wednesday that the U.S. used the harsh interrogation technique on Khalid Sheik Mohammed and said he would "do it again to save lives."

    George W. Bush Defends Waterboarding: Would Waterboard Khalid Sheik Mohammed Again


    Romney’s Fundraiser With Cheney Highlights His Embrace Of A Bush-Era Foreign Policy

    "Romney agrees. His aides have said he does not believe waterboarding is torture,” and refused to rule out the technique’s use by a potential Romney administration."

    Waterboarding | ThinkProgress



    Bachmann: Obama 'clearly wrong' to end use of waterboarding

    "The Minnesota congresswoman had attacked the president over the weekend for discontinuing the practice, saying that it effectively led to the ACLU running the CIA. But Obama defended his decision at a press conference Saturday in Hawaii."

    “We did the right thing by ending that practice,” Obama said."

    Bachmann: Obama 'clearly wrong' to end use of waterboarding - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room
    Last edited by Catawba; 07-28-12 at 07:21 AM.
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  2. #62
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Yes, though it is a fairly mild form of torture.
    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

  3. #63
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Of course it is. That's never REALLY been the question. The question is should it be used, anyway? THAT'S the REAL question that people want to avoid. The question in the OP is a smokescreen.
    I'm interested in why the people who oppose it's use want to claim "it's never effective". To me, that is the smokescreen. Does your (in the general sense) objection to it rest on whether it's effective or not? If the objection is based on moral or ethical grounds, whether enhanced interrogation is actually effective in gaining solid info should be completely irrelevant.

  4. #64
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    By the definitions of torture some are putting forward, prisoners are tortured in Japanese jails daily. They are forced to kneel in the middle of their cells for hours on end, and psychological pressure combined with physical discomforts are used to push them to sign confessions.


    Let's don't even mention Mexican prisons, and what goes on in jail in some middle eastern nations.

    Instead lets focus on how evil the USA is for having been desperate enough to resort to mild, non-harmful torture to find out if terrorists were planning to murder thousands or tens of thousands more Americans in the first few years after 9/11. (/irony)

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  5. #65
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    By the definitions of torture some are putting forward, prisoners are tortured in Japanese jails daily. They are forced to kneel in the middle of their cells for hours on end, and psychological pressure combined with physical discomforts are used to push them to sign confessions.


    Let's don't even mention Mexican prisons, and what goes on in jail in some middle eastern nations.

    Instead lets focus on how evil the USA is for having been desperate enough to resort to mild, non-harmful torture to find out if terrorists were planning to murder thousands or tens of thousands more Americans in the first few years after 9/11. (/irony)

    We don't control policy or elect representatives in Japan and Mexico. We do in the US however. We have to get our own house in order before we start preaching to others, otherwise we have zero credibility.

    No one has ever been convinced of much with the, do as I say, not as I do, approach.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    More unsubstantiated opinion?
    Fact. You want proof? Get inside the circle.

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    It is most certainly torture.

    Two things.

    1. The idea that torture never works is ludicrous.

    2. The idea it's always nessecary is equally ludicrous.

    Now, I am of the persuasion that those who don't consider it torture, do so in part, whether they realize it or not to save face. If its not torture, then they don't have to feel bad their nation engaged in it.

    However it is torture and if thats what you feel you have to do to defend your nation, then you will do it anyway, just stop skirting around the issue, just say it outright "we will torture people to defend ourselves".

    Stop trying to pretend you have the moral high ground.

  8. #68
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I'm interested in why the people who oppose it's use want to claim "it's never effective". To me, that is the smokescreen. Does your (in the general sense) objection to it rest on whether it's effective or not? If the objection is based on moral or ethical grounds, whether enhanced interrogation is actually effective in gaining solid info should be completely irrelevant.
    Why can't it be both?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We don't control policy or elect representatives in Japan and Mexico. We do in the US however. We have to get our own house in order before we start preaching to others, otherwise we have zero credibility.
    This is a pussy's approach to world affairs....

    When we prevented the Allies from losing Word War I did we have our affairs in order? When we bankrolled the Allies, invaded Europe, and defeated Japan did we have our affairs in order? When we prevented the Soviet Communists from achieving global superiority over the West did we we have our affairs in order? And should we really be giving any good will to any starving or humanitarian disastered people when we have our own health care issues? With Native Americans being slaughtered, blacks enslaved, women without votes, blacks without civil rights, how dare we do anything for the world and protect our global interests, right? Your cry is a whine to abandon responsibility and good morality masked in superior self righteousness and it pains me that people like you benefit from people like me.

    The point is that nobody anywhere, to include governments, ever have their affairs in order. Using it as an excuse to legitimize cowardice, near sightedness, and stupidity is as transparent today as it has been throughout history whenever a spectator citizen decided to pretend he is above others in the game....while benefitting from the "evil" of others who protect them.

    At what poi nt will America have its affairs in order? Utopia? The Leftists depraved idea to excuse one of responsibility? The most powerful nation in history must cower behind shields and walls because Leftists, who should have been born elsewhere, cling to the bull**** dream that China and the Soviet Union proved a failure?

    ....or did this bit of boldness once again fly into deaf ears? Anything for the bull **** dream.
    Last edited by MSgt; 07-28-12 at 12:49 PM.

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Fact. You want proof? Get inside the circle.
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