View Poll Results: Do you think water boarding is torture?

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    114 77.55%
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Thread: Do you think water boarding is torture?[W:453]

  1. #361
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    No, it doesn't. Each service has it's own SERE programs run, led, managed and owned entirely by the individual service and tailored to that services needs/directives.
    That doesn't change ****. The program for all of the was laid on how it was to be handled. Agian, they were testifying before congress about the entire progrma and how it was done eveywhere. Again, unless you have been thorugh both, you cannot make a comparison.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I haven't walked on the moon without a space suit either, but I know I need one if I go there.
    But you'd rather take what you've read about it rather than first hand expirience of one who has trained to walk on the moon (but has yet to walk on the moon)

    I did, and it comes up broken up as a separate sentence. But it is a minor thing. Not anythign I'm worried about either way.
    Then your ridicule is all the more senseless.

    No, opinions are nto created equal. Those who know more, and explan clearly why are better than those that know less and don't remotely address the issue at hand. Agian, You cannot possibley know if they are the same unless you've experienced both.
    Who is this person who has been through SERE and has been interrogated with the use of waterbaording are you citing? Or, is your expert just someone who is familiar with the training?

  3. #363
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That doesn't change ****. The program for all of the was laid on how it was to be handled. Agian, they were testifying before congress about the entire progrma and how it was done eveywhere.
    This is simply not true, as it can't be unless quite a few more people testified.

    Again, unless you have been thorugh both, you cannot make a comparison.
    Again, you've been through neither, so you can do even less.

  4. #364
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    When someone is water boarded while not a captive of another country under circumstances that do not allow to opt out or go have a beer with your buddies laugh it off the situation is much different. But here is the crux of water boarding it is not just interrogating a suspect for information. Water boarding is designed to punish and terrify the suspect to get them to answer any and all questions. Water boarding is used like torture so whether you believe its torture or not in some strange partisan denial reflex. Clearly the intent is there.

    And where there is intent to use torture and justify it, then we can bet that the same people will justify torture or what they consider real torture. Im mean why not use torture it will save lives right? And hell since everyone thinks that the US tortures people why not use it?

    I remember when we invaded Iraq and found Saddams torture chambers and how everyone was appalled and the Right felt that the invasion was justified. That vile dictator was torturing people so what does that say about supporters of water boarding today?

    And before that the world was appalled at by the actions of the Nazis.

    Does not anyone today remember Bataan and Corregidor? Was the hell that those men went through to be in vain? because some Americans chose to forget those atrocities and even try to justify them despite the lessons that this country learned at the hands of the enemy? Is this what we have become the vile excuses for human being that our flesh and blood fought and gave their lives to stop? Are we to join the ranks of the Viet cong and the Mexican drug cartels?

    This isnt about who thinks that water boarding is torture or how you can try to justify water torture. This is about principle, American principle and who we are as a nation stand for and what stand against. Are we a nation that is backed against a wall and must employee the very vile actions that we are fighting against? If we have become so desperate that we need to justify torture perhaps we should just pack up and go home since we will be inspiring generations of foreigner to hate us.


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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    But you'd rather take what you've read about it rather than first hand expirience of one who has trained to walk on the moon (but has yet to walk on the moon)
    Sure, because logically, you cannot know unless you've been through both. You can't make that comparison. And those who put it together know both, know it well, as they have to design the program.

    Then your ridicule is all the more senseless.
    Not sure what you mean there as I did not ridecule. I merely didn't know what you meant at first. I explained why.


    Who is this person who has been through SERE and has been interrogated with the use of waterbaording are you citing? Or, is your expert just someone who is familiar with the training?

    The links are back there. I posted them for you. You have congressional testimony from both the former U.S. Navy Senior Chief, SERE instructor, and expert in prisoners of war and terrorist hostage survival techniques and the chief Psychologist who set the rules for safety for the participants. Their names escape me, but they are who congress called and their testimony was linked for you to read.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #366
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    This is simply not true, as it can't be unless quite a few more people testified.
    No, you don't need dozens, or hundreds, or thousands. The program isn't that complicated.

    Again, you've been through neither, so you can do even less.
    Which is why I'm not claiming I know from personal experience. That claim can only be made from someone who has done both. Or more correctly, survivied both.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #367
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Sure, because logically, you cannot know unless you've been through both. You can't make that comparison. And those who put it together know both, know it well, as they have to design the program.
    but reading about it makes you an expert...


    Not sure what you mean there as I did not ridecule. I merely didn't know what you meant at first. I explained why.
    It's back there...

    The links are back there. I posted them for you. You have congressional testimony from both the former U.S. Navy Senior Chief, SERE instructor, and expert in prisoners of war and terrorist hostage survival techniques and the chief Psychologist who set the rules for safety for the participants. Their names escape me, but they are who congress called and their testimony was linked for you to read.
    Yes, but the person that you claim has expirienced both waterboarding in training and as a prisoner of war is absent from your links. Please point out that guy.

  8. #368
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    but reading about it makes you an expert...
    You know, reading is not a bad thing. This is how many people learn things. This is one of the reasons education is suffering, because parents say reading doesn't lead to knowledge. However, the point is I point to people who knew BOTH. You only know one.


    Yes, but the person that you claim has experienced both water boarding in training and as a prisoner of war is absent from your links. Please point out that guy.
    No, they understand both. They had to in order to create the program, to know where to stop so that you were not damaged. I'm sorry, but you're looking for away to ignore those who know more than you do. You expect people to just accept that you're accurate, providing nothing beyond you. Nowhere is that good enough. You simply don't have enough experience in either having experienced both, or studied both. Nowhere are you a recognized expert.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #369
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    Torture: the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

    I'd say it fits quite easily within that definition. So, yes.
    I've been waterboarded. it is not pleasant but it is hardly excruciating pain.
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  10. #370
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I've been waterboarded. it is not pleasant but it is hardly excruciating pain.
    But you haven't had the entire deal, the real deal. See above discussion and links I've posted on it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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