View Poll Results: Do you think water boarding is torture?

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  • Yes

    114 77.55%
  • No

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Thread: Do you think water boarding is torture?[W:453]

  1. #311
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You are wrong...........Many SEALS and Special Forces have been water boarded prior to it being outlawed and none of them died..........
    Sorry, the people in charge say NO. They say what was done was not the same.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #312
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Just some highlights:

    Chairman Levin. Are the physical and psychological pressures, which are designed for use in SERE school for training students, intended to be used against detainees to obtain intelligence?


    Dr. Ogrisseg. No, Mr. Chairman.

    Chairman Levin. Why not?

    Dr. Ogrisseg. Those techniques are derived from what has historically happened to our personnel who have been detained by the enemy. From those, we derived some learning objectives and some situations to put students through so that we can test their decisionmaking-building, and also use some of those strategies to increase their resistance and the confidence that they would be able to survive if they are subjected to them. It's not the same at all as something that would be applied in an interrogation setting.

    (snip)

    Senator Graham. Based on your studies of this subject matter, is it fair to say that you can get almost anybody to say anything if you're hard enough on them over time?

    Dr. Ogrisseg. I would say that that's true, but that's also the problem. You could get them to say anything.

    (snip)

    Chairman Levin. Okay. Just, Dr. Ogrisseg, one other question for you. In an article, or a book, that you wrote, the book called, ``Code of Conduct and the Psychology of Captivity: Training, Coping, and Reintegration of Military Life,'' you said that, ``The use of physical torture has historically yielded poor information and, paradoxically, serves to enhance resistance.''

    Dr. Ogrisseg. Yes, sir.

    Chairman Levin. ``Furthermore, the practices serves to decrease the legitimacy of the offending organization or country. Physical torture, in most instances, has produced false confessions or inaccurate or reliable information.'' Is
    that true? Did you write that?

    Dr. Ogrisseg. Yes, I did, Mr. Chairman.

    Chairman Levin. Is that your belief?

    Dr. Ogrisseg. Yes, it is, Mr. Chairman.

    The Treatment of Detainees in U.S. Custody

    In late 2002, a document was put out called -- literally its title is "SERE Standing Operative Procedure" for GTMO. And I'm going to quote to you. "The premise behind this is that the interrogation tactics used at US military SERE schools are appropriate for use in real world interrogations. These tactics and techniques are used at SERE school to break SERE detainees. The same tactics and techniques can be used to break real detainees during interrogation operations."

    Someone needs to go to jail. That's all there is to it. This is disgusting. Thousands of service members, thousands, went through that process and were tortured around the world. People died to -- so that we could have those techniques brought out and shown our service member how to resist it. It's disgusting. How could they dare take this? How could they so -- how could they dishonor us like that? Every ex-captive in this nation should be standing up against this. They literally went and took the techniques of the North Vietnamese and said we could use it to break them? I didn't know that, by the way. I'm pretty pissed. I mean this is ridiculous.

    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/torturi...olm_nance.html

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Its the same principle and they try and make it as realistic as possible just like when I was placed in the little black box when I went to survivial school prior to going to Nam..........Of course its not the same, that is only common sense but I can tell you it gets your attention.
    Okay - you're really not getting the concept of forcing somebody to torture vs training somebody to resist it. How would you like for me to explain it to you? I'm really good with drawings. Maybe we could do like a picture game of some kind. I'm up for anything really as long as we make it into a game. We could have some fun with it. I could draw something which is forced vs something for which one volunteers and you can tell us things like legal and moral liabilities in each case. You up for it?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 08-06-12 at 02:35 AM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Just thought I'd point out some of the rabid left wingers who voted in this poll:

    0bserver92, 24107, 99percenter, Anagram, Arcana XV, ashurbanipal, Baralis, Blackdog, Bodhisattva, Boring Bob, Catawba, DA60, Darrell, DaveFagan, Dezaad, DiavoTheMiavo, DrunkenAsparagus, DVSentinel, earthworm, finebead, FreedomFromAll, Fruityfact, Gardener, German guy, Gina, gunner, Guy Incognito, Hare, Hatuey, Helix, iguanaman, IndieVisible, Jetboogieman, joko104, Jredbaron96, JRog, kerussll, kmiller1610, MadLib, MaggieD, Manc Skipper, Mickey Shane, molten_dragon, monkeyloveafight, MoSurveyor, mpg, MSgt, Neomalthusian, notquiteright, OnWisconsin, Paratrooper, Paschendale, pbrauer, peepnklown, Penderyn, PeteEU, Phys251, PirateMk1, Risky Thicket, RMillz11, Sarcogito, Simlasa, Sirham, sKiTzo, Smart, SmokeAndMirrors, Somerville, Sonic, specklebang, Surtr, teamosil, TheDemSocialist, TheLastIndependent, Thorgasm, upsideguy, Van Basten, Wake, whysoserious, Wiggen, Your Star, Zariak
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Okay - you're really not getting the concept of forcing somebody to torture vs training somebody to resist it. How would you like for me to explain it to you? I'm really good with drawings. Maybe we could do like a picture game of some kind. I'm up for anything really as long as we make it into a game. We could have some fun with it. I could draw something which is forced vs something for which one volunteers and you can tell us things like legal and moral liabilities in each case. You up for it?

    The small black box to which he refers is about 3 feet long, 18 inches wide, and perhaps 24 inches deep. To get in, you cross your legs at your ankles, squat, bend over into the box and then somebody sits on the box to get the lid down by compressing the occupant, and then the fun begins. Imagine the blood circulation problems. The box is not a training technique, but real time torture. As he said, you can't stand or walk when they lift you out.

  8. #318
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    That is a riduclous comparison my left wing friend. Lets just say I would do anything it takes to save a love one.
    It's a precise analogy. If you're the type of person for whom the ends justify the means, then you might torture or murder or what have you to get your way. Other people recognize an objective morality where the ends do not justify immoral means.
    Which choice you make says a lot about you as a person

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    what if by torture you saved a loved one's life
    I don't really understand the question. I said it wasn't great an idea in my mind. If it's absolutely necessary, I guess.

  10. #320
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    Do you honestly believe that our enemies pay any attention to the Geneva Convention and follow it? My God man they cut off our soldiers heads....Now that is torture.........


    NP reasoning - criminals don't follow laws, therefore no need for laws.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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