View Poll Results: Do you think water boarding is torture?

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    114 77.55%
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Thread: Do you think water boarding is torture?[W:453]

  1. #271
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    Folks who have so violated the Geneva convention can be shot without trial, but we can't make them uncomfortable?
    Woudl be true if there were state soldiers and part of an army. When you declare war on civilian groups, that's really a different animal.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    Water-boarding is mild torture. It should (if it were legal) be used when an expert interrogator sees that the particular person he is questioning is a known war criminal and has the information and psychological weaknesses that would make the technique effective. This would mean the technique is used infrequently (if it were legal).

    I have never understood why known war criminals who were captured on the battlefield, out of uniform, killing civilians, not being part of a recognized hierarchy, not being a member of a signatory nation deserve Geneva protections.

    What is the point of all those definitions if the monsters get the same protections as those who are not war criminals?
    For the record, we've used in on innocent people as well. We've used worse on innocent people. And that is the rub. We too often THINK we know when in fact we don't.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #273
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Woudl be true if there were state soldiers and part of an army. When you declare war on civilian groups, that's really a different animal.
    So they have more rights than people out of uniform who have not committed war crimes?

  4. #274
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    For the record, we've used in on innocent people as well. We've used worse on innocent people. And that is the rub. We too often THINK we know when in fact we don't.
    And I think that is wrong. Only on proven war criminals caught on the battlefield, reviewed by an interrogation expert who thinks the technique will produce needed answers. For example, the court said in Hamdan v Rumsfeld, that Hamdan (UBL's driver) could not be classified as an illegal combatant through his association with UBL alone. He was just a driver.

  5. #275
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    It should be self-evident that human beings should not be subjected to torture. Equivocation and elision notwithstanding.
    yes. and human beings should also not commit terrorism. human beings should not have their rights stripped from them and be locked in cages. yet human beings should also not murder, and doing the latter will lead to the former. what to do, when life offers no easy answers?

  6. #276
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    So they have more rights than people out of uniform who have not committed war crimes?
    More rights? Do you have more rights than a solider? Let's just not pretend they are the same. Now, we can follow a couple of rules of laws, one that governs soliders, though the uniform thing wouldn't apply. Or, one that governs civilians. Neither allows for torture on killing.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #277
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More rights? Do you have more rights than a solider? Let's just not pretend they are the same. Now, we can follow a couple of rules of laws, one that governs soliders, though the uniform thing wouldn't apply. Or, one that governs civilians. Neither allows for torture on killing.
    Then what is the purpose for Geneva defining the REQUIREMENTS for POW status?

  8. #278
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    And I think that is wrong. Only on proven war criminals caught on the battlefield, reviewed by an interrogation expert who thinks the technique will produce needed answers. For example, the court said in Hamdan v Rumsfeld, that Hamdan (UBL's driver) could not be classified as an illegal combatant through his association with UBL alone. He was just a driver.
    That's simply not true. We mistakenly took a fellow off an ariplane because he had a simplar name and tortured him. Returned him a couple of years later. We killed a taxi-driver in Afghanistan with torture (at least people faced charges for that one), and there is every indication he was innocent. These are two of the few we KNOW about. I know we like to belive we don't make mistakes, but humans do. That is the reasons we have these protections.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Woudl be true if there were state soldiers and part of an army. When you declare war on civilian groups, that's really a different animal.
    Al-Qaeda went to war with us. And yes, the Geneva Conventions declare that A) all combatants must wear immediately identifiable uniforms and B) that failure to do so puts civilians at risk and that is the fault of the combatants who do not wear identifiable uniforms.

    That is why they can be summarily shot without trial.

  10. #280
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    Then what is the purpose for Geneva defining the REQUIREMENTS for POW status?
    It was for wars between nations. We are not at war with any nation. The enemy we face is not fighting for any nation or country.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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