View Poll Results: Do you think water boarding is torture?

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  • Yes

    114 77.55%
  • No

    33 22.45%
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Thread: Do you think water boarding is torture?[W:453]

  1. #191
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, I mentioned on this thread. al Libib has been linked often, and you should do your own search as well so you know it is common knowledge.

    As for an inicident, see paratropper excusing torture above. See CP. there are plenty of examples.
    I feel like I'm talking to thunder...
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Getting bad information is better than getting no information at all.

    Tell that to the families of all we killed in in Iraq.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #193
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Tell that to the families of all we killed in in Iraq.
    Thanks for admitting you have no real idea what our troops did over there.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  4. #194
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    I feel like I'm talking to thunder...
    Is this your aviodance techinque?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #196
    Educator Paratrooper's Avatar
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, waterboarding has always been considered torture. Long ago I linked the CIA manual (which I can't find now) showing that these tactics were worse and more harmful long term than regular torture, so you misrepresent them badly here.
    This response seems silly as I clearly chose in the poll that it was torture. My point in response on this topic is our hands are pretty much tied behind our back because everything is considered torture now.

    I guess this is how an interrogation should go in liberal fantasy land:

    Dude walks into the interrogation room. Guard is instructed to remove flex cuffs, and shows detainee where to have a seat. Interrogator ask, "you good, need anything?". Interrogator instructs someone outside the door, "bring this man some smokes and a cup of coffee." Guard slings his weapon and starts giving the detainee a shoulder massage to help him relax. Interrogator "you comfortable?" "Ok, good. Look we really need to know where that weapons cache is" Detainee: "I'm not telling you anything" Interrogator:"Ok sorry to have bothered you, guards release this man."

  7. #197
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    This response seems silly as I clearly chose in the poll that it was torture. My point in response on this topic is our hands are pretty much tied behind our back because everything is considered torture now.

    I guess this is how an interrogation should go in liberal fantasy land:

    Dude walks into the interrogation room. Guard is instructed to remove flex cuffs, and shows detainee where to have a seat. Interrogator ask, "you good, need anything?". Interrogator instructs someone outside the door, "bring this man some smokes and a cup of coffee." Guard slings his weapon and starts giving the detainee a shoulder massage to help him relax. Interrogator "you comfortable?" "Ok, good. Look we really need to know where that weapons cache is" Detainee: "I'm not telling you anything" Interrogator:"Ok sorry to have bothered you, guards release this man."
    It's not how you voted, but what you said, and what you say here. There ar emethods between torture and what you paint here. We don't define more things as torture today; the effort instead has been to define less as torture.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #198
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    That's actually not true, and not what his links say. Even those who make the claim don't make a direct one. They say back during Bush term a link was made, but not direct.
    They say that a variety of collections were necessary to putting it all together, and one of those was the information that came out of enhanced interrogation.

    Thought it's not exactly like the OBL raid was the only piece of actionable intel that came out of enhanced interrogation; that program saved countless lives by allowing us to stop attacks on US and British soil before they began. Again, as heads of the CIA from both parties have stated.

    You can argue that torture is never morally acceptable if you wish, and it's certainly a defensible position. But to argue that enhanced interrogation and/or torture isn't effective does not match reality. I have seen torture work. Even John McCain, deeply passionate advocate that he is, admits in his book that everyone broke, and gave up information. Everyone breaks. Hell, KSM was glad that he had broken, because it took away his religious duty to resist.

  9. #199
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    They say that a variety of collections were necessary to putting it all together, and one of those was the information that came out of enhanced interrogation.

    Thought it's not exactly like the OBL raid was the only piece of actionable intel that came out of enhanced interrogation; that program saved countless lives by allowing us to stop attacks on US and British soil before they began. Again, as heads of the CIA from both parties have stated.

    You can argue that torture is never morally acceptable if you wish, and it's certainly a defensible position. But to argue that enhanced interrogation and/or torture isn't effective does not match reality. I have seen torture work. Even John McCain, deeply passionate advocate that he is, admits in his book that everyone broke, and gave up information. Everyone breaks. Hell, KSM was glad that he had broken, because it took away his religious duty to resist.
    I'm sorry, but it isn't effective. They did not get critical information from the torture, and what little they got, they got the same information and more without it. When you consider how clearly we can document not only misinformation, but misinformation that we USED, to our detriment, to argue it is effective is what is really foolish. No one argues everyone doesn't break, even the innocnet confess, and even those who know knowing give something. This is the problem with it. And to say you really can figure out what is true and what isn't flies in the face of verifiable evidence. We used al Libi. That is a fact. Not at all questionable, which you cannot say about your OBL claim here.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm sorry, but it isn't effective. They did not get critical information from the torture, and what little they got, they got the same information and more without it. When you consider how clearly we can document not only misinformation, but misinformation that we USED, to our detriment, to argue it is effective is what is really foolish. No one argues everyone doesn't break, even the innocnet confess, and even those who know knowing give something. This is the problem with it. And to say you really can figure out what is true and what isn't flies in the face of verifiable evidence. We used al Libi. That is a fact. Not at all questionable, which you cannot say about your OBL claim here.
    These are simply talking points. If it was not effective it would not be used. Can a detainee give false information? Certainly but they can by other means as well.

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