View Poll Results: Do you think water boarding is torture?

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    114 77.55%
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Thread: Do you think water boarding is torture?[W:453]

  1. #181
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Which is what we've been doing. Those who supported Bush's policy of torture excused us while putting others down. Calling you on your hypocrisy is what we've been doing.
    Um, you'd have to find an incident of hypocrisy to call someone on it. I don't care if it was Bush or Obama torturing terrorists. It's all good in my book. Just like killing murderers and rapists and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Can you link verifiable evidence of it being successful. Other than with confessions, because even the innocnet wil confess.
    Can you link verifiable evidence of actual accounts of it being used and 'failing'?
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  2. #182
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    CIA Director Leon Panetta confirms that waterboarding led to Osama Bin Laden

    Former head of CIA National Clandestine Service: Waterboarding Worked to Stop Attacks Before They Happened


    etc. so on and so forth. Torture can absolutely be effective. I have watched it be effective. Information derived from torture probably saved my life. Waterboarding, too, is also incredibly effective, as has been attested to by CIA directors from both sides of the aisle.
    You know I can provide links disputing that.


    John McCain: Waterboarding, Torture Did Not Help Hunt for Osama Bin Laden

    John McCain: Waterboarding, Torture Did Not Help Hunt for Osama Bin Laden - ABC News

    Asked if harsh interrogation techniques at Guantanamo Bay played a role in obtaining intelligence on bin Laden’s whereabouts, Rumsfeld declares: “First of all, no one was waterboarded at Guantanamo Bay. That’s a myth that’s been perpetrated around the country by critics.

    “The United States Department of Defense did not do waterboarding for interrogation purposes to anyone. It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding.”

    Donald Rumsfeld: Information That Led To Bin Laden Was Not Obtained Via Waterboarding

    A group of former US military interrogators are pushing back against the notion that Bush administration “enhanced interrogation techniques” – which many consider to be torture – led to the intelligence that helped US officials locate Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.

    (snip)

    It is a misconception that ideologues don’t talk, he says. “The opinion that, ‘Oh, he’s such a fanatic, he won’t tell us anything' – that’s uninformed blathering by people who don’t understand the business,” Herrington adds. “The experience with those who worked with Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and some of the other most senior terrorists is that they are narcissists and that they do want to talk – and talk and talk.”

    The key, Herrington says, is to “channel those long talking sessions where they begin to – inadvertently at first – reveal things that are useful. All the while he’s talking, he’s telling us things that he doesn’t think are important, but they are.”

    That requires building relationships – a process that is hampered, not helped, by practices such as “slapping someone in the face and stripping them naked,” he adds.

    Military interrogators: Waterboarding didn't yield tips that led to bin Laden - CSMonitor.com

    As for claims by tose who want you to believe, who provide no actual evidence, well, that speaks to your willingness and not actual effectiveness.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #183
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    US soldiers are sleep deprived, given reduced food allowances, forced to do physical activities that exceed the capability of most human beings, and even struck. Schools such as SERE and Special Operations employ these methods.

    Do prisoners deserve to be treated better than our own soldiers? Do I think we should be sawing people's limbs off or beating people with electric cables? Ofcourse not but peoples interpretation of torture now are ludicrous.

    Its easy to sit behind the computer screen and say "yeah we shouldn't torture people" but I'll bet if they were put into the time sensitive emergency situation involving their family and community they would make that choice.

  4. #184
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    US soldiers are sleep deprived, given reduced food allowances, forced to do physical activities that exceed the capability of most human beings, and even struck. Schools such as SERE and Special Operations employ these methods.

    Do prisoners deserve to be treated better than our own soldiers? Do I think we should be sawing people's limbs off or beating people with electric cables? Ofcourse not but peoples interpretation of torture now are ludicrous.

    Its easy to sit behind the computer screen and say "yeah we shouldn't torture people" but I'll bet if they were put into the time sensitive emergency situation involving their family and community they would make that choice.
    The people who run SERE before congress said what they were doing was not equal to what happens to prisoners. Those on SERE trainign only get a taste, little more. I have almost more trouble with people trying to excuse torture than with those doing it. In the end, we hurt our people, those who torture, when we support torture.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    I don't support torture except under time sensitive emergencies.
    Even Hillary Clinton conceded this:

    In the event we were ever confronted with having to interrogate a detainee with knowledge of an imminent threat to millions of Americans, then the decision to depart from standard international practices must be made by the president
    I do however disagree with what people now consider torture (basically anything that makes a prisoner feel uncomfortable).

  6. #186
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    CIA Director Leon Panetta confirms that waterboarding led to Osama Bin Laden

    Former head of CIA National Clandestine Service: Waterboarding Worked to Stop Attacks Before They Happened


    etc. so on and so forth. Torture can absolutely be effective. I have watched it be effective. Information derived from torture probably saved my life. Waterboarding, too, is also incredibly effective, as has been attested to by CIA directors from both sides of the aisle.
    lol. Ya gotta love Obama and his boys being all politically correct and stroking his base... but then snuck behind our backs and used it to help find the location of Osama bin Laden. I guess Obama does deserve more credit than some of us have been giving him, He feels its ok to use when OBL is caught. The hypocrisy is staggering.

  7. #187
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by 00timh View Post
    lol. Ya gotta love Obama and his boys being all politically correct and stroking his base... but then snuck behind our backs and used it to help find the location of Osama bin Laden. I guess Obama does deserve more credit than some of us have been giving him, He feels its ok to use when OBL is caught. The hypocrisy is staggering.
    That's actually not true, and not what his links say. Even those who make the claim don't make a direct one. They say back during Bush term a link was made, but not direct.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #188
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    I don't support torture except under time sensitive emergencies.
    Even Hillary Clinton conceded this:



    I do however disagree with what people now consider torture (basically anything that makes a prisoner feel uncomfortable).
    No, waterboarding has always been considered torture. Long ago I linked the CIA manual (which I can't find now) showing that these tactics were worse and more harmful long term than regular torture, so you misrepresent them badly here.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #189
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Um, you'd have to find an incident of hypocrisy to call someone on it. I don't care if it was Bush or Obama torturing terrorists. It's all good in my book. Just like killing murderers and rapists and such.



    Can you link verifiable evidence of actual accounts of it being used and 'failing'?
    Yes, I mentioned on this thread. al Libib has been linked often, and you should do your own search as well so you know it is common knowledge.

    As for an inicident, see paratropper excusing torture above. See CP. there are plenty of examples.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #190
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    Re: Do you think water boarding is torture?

    Think of it this way, were giving those people from the mideast the swimming lessons they never had.

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