View Poll Results: Would you own an assault Rifle? Why?

Voters
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  • No! Only crazies own assault rifles.

    15 11.11%
  • No, they are too expensive!

    7 5.19%
  • No, no need to.

    41 30.37%
  • Yes, for self defense

    44 32.59%
  • Yes, for recreation and sport

    52 38.52%
  • Yes, to perform my patriotic duty if the nation is invaded

    43 31.85%
  • Yes, because it's my constiutional right

    45 33.33%
  • Yes, because I'm one of the CRAZIES!!! hahahahaha

    15 11.11%
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Thread: Why would you own an assault rifle?

  1. #681
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    Re: Why would you own an assault rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    How much ammo do assault rifles typically contain? I'm also going to count a 2nd ammo cartridge. Each slug from an assault rifle is another chance to kill.

    I think a gym full of kids/adults could be mowed down with a powerful assault rifle, as lethal if not moreso than a grenade launcher. Also, with the grenade launcher there's more of a risk of possibly being caught in the blast radius. With an assault rifle you cannot get caught in a blast radius. If an assault rifle can carry over 100 bullets, it's more lethal than an RPG, imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I think that's more than a little unfair to think that "if you have 200 rounds and don't hit anything..." I don't think that if you're deliberately looking to kill people, you're going to kill one person every 40 slugs. I think the numbers would be a bit higher. Of course I don't have experience killing people with assault rifles, so obviously this is strictly anecdotal. I still think one could charge a crowd, mow them down, and then continue mowing down the fallen victims. It wouldn't be difficult if an ammo cartridge contains 50-100 slugs per pop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I don't know much about guns/weapons. I figured a grenade launcer typically has, what, two rockets. You can kill people within the 15-ft blast radius. You get two shots. However, with an assault rifle with 100 slugs you can mow down a group, run to the next destination, mow more down, etc. Iirc that one Norway terrorist did the same thing.

    I figure if you have a weapon that can kill over 50 people with two ammo cartridges, then why not an RPG, too? What gives an edge in favor of the assault rifle is that, as you said, there's no possibility of being trapped in a blast radius. You can kill a lot of people in compact places, especially if they're within 15 feet of you. Not so with a RPG. Edge on assault rifle.


    Okay, hold up a minute and let me throw out a few facts for you, so that you have some tiny measure of accurate info before jumping headfirst into any more barrels of used chewing gum.

    1. An "assault rifle" is NOT more deadly than a grenade launcher or RPG, and they are totally different classes of weapons because one is an explosive "area effect" weapon.
    2. Almost all "assault rifles" in private hands in America are in fact SEMI-AUTO (one shot per trigger pull) and NOT full auto. Full auto is much harder to obtain and requires special licenses and permits and conditions.
    3. Most "assault" rifles have magazines holding 20 or 30 rounds. These 100 round magazines are typically bulky drums; they are hard to load, cranky and prone to failure, and pros generally do not use them for those reasons.
    4. An "Assault" rifle fires an intermediate cartridge... that means a cartridge of middle-level power for rifles. A typical deer rifle is MORE POWERFUL PER SHOT than most assault rifles.
    5. Assault rifles are therefore LESS deadly on a per-shot basis than a typical deer rifle.
    6. Simply charging into a crowd and thinking you're going to "mow them down" like grain because you have a semi-auto "assault" rifle is a major tactical misjudgement. Having an assault rifle does not make you bulletproof, nor automatically guarantee you will beat someone with a revolver or even someone with a pocket knife, quick reflexes and a bit of luck.
    7. Grenade launchers do not typically shoot rockets. RPGs shoot rocket-propelled grenades yes; most grenade launchers shoot grenades with a charge like a shotgun... but again, this is a TOTALLY different class of weapon.

    I got to go light the grill, more on this in a few minutes....

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  2. #682
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    Re: Why would you own an assault rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    1. An "assault rifle" is NOT more deadly than a grenade launcher or RPG, and they are totally different classes of weapons because one is an explosive "area effect" weapon.
    2. Almost all "assault rifles" in private hands in America are in fact SEMI-AUTO (one shot per trigger pull) and NOT full auto. Full auto is much harder to obtain and requires special licenses and permits and conditions.
    3. Most "assault" rifles have magazines holding 20 or 30 rounds. These 100 round magazines are typically bulky drums; they are hard to load, cranky and prone to failure, and pros generally do not use them for those reasons.
    4. An "Assault" rifle fires an intermediate cartridge... that means a cartridge of middle-level power for rifles. A typical deer rifle is MORE POWERFUL PER SHOT than most assault rifles.
    5. Assault rifles are therefore LESS deadly on a per-shot basis than a typical deer rifle.
    6. Simply charging into a crowd and thinking you're going to "mow them down" like grain because you have a semi-auto "assault" rifle is a major tactical misjudgement. Having an assault rifle does not make you bulletproof, nor automatically guarantee you will beat someone with a revolver or even someone with a pocket knife, quick reflexes and a bit of luck.
    7. Grenade launchers do not typically shoot rockets. RPGs shoot rocket-propelled grenades yes; most grenade launchers shoot grenades with a charge like a shotgun... but again, this is a TOTALLY different class of weapon.
    Thank you. I'll look to see where I can cross-check this data, while researching the issue.

  3. #683
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    Re: Why would you own an assault rifle?

    Okay, Wake, more info...

    8. Guns are not "deadly"... people are deadly. A gun in the hands of a sensible person with no criminal intent is pretty harmless.
    9. To be particularly deadly, bullets have to be aimed. If you don't hit someone in the brain, spine or heart, they probably will not die quickly. If you just spray bullets around at random, you probably won't kill much as "assault rifle" bullets are actually less deadly than deer rifle bullets on a per-shot basis.
    10. The current military wounded-to-killed ratio for gunshot wounds is about 10 to 1. That is, 10 wounded for every 1 killed. In civilian America it is pretty close to that if you get medical aid with reasonable promptness. You'll notice the "batman shooter" wounded a LOT more people than he killed. A grenade launcher probably would have changed the equation quite a bit.. for the worse. Again, the two are really not comparable.
    11. Criminals most commonly use handguns or shotguns to commit crime.... civilian model "assault" rifles are very rarely used in criminal attacks.
    12. Half the people hating on "assault" rifles can't even define what one is, most of them are not aware that most versions possessed by civilians are NOT machine guns but semi-auto one-shot-per-trigger-pull guns, and many are unaware that there are detachable-magazine rifles that are not remotely "assault weapons".

    I'm going to stop there for now, I think I need a drink.

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  4. #684
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    Re: Why would you own an assault rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    How much ammo do assault rifles typically contain? I'm also going to count a 2nd ammo cartridge. Each slug from an assault rifle is another chance to kill.
    Okay, first off. Dependent on the magazine, not cartridge. As Goshin already pointed out typically an intermediate assault style rifle has 20-30, some go 40, BTW, and I know G is doing this for convenience, assault rifles are necessarily automatic due to the selector switch. Some guns can accomodate drum feeds that are prone to every problem Goshin pointed out, they are bulky, heavy, and jam at the worst possible time. The cartridge is the round itself, it is the total of the shell casing, bullet, and powder load, plus primer. You can't count another magazine, because you are asking me to solve for an x that has no determined value. Who's to say that someone will only have one additional mag.? Finally, it's not a "slug", only rounds that I know of are considered slugs, a shotgun "bullet".

    I think a gym full of kids/adults could be mowed down with a powerful assault rifle, as lethal if not moreso than a grenade launcher. Also, with the grenade launcher there's more of a risk of possibly being caught in the blast radius. With an assault rifle you cannot get caught in a blast radius. If an assault rifle can carry over 100 bullets, it's more lethal than an RPG, imo.
    A crowd can be mowed down by a pistol wielding maniac, or a can of gasoline, or explosives, the latter two will cause more fatalities. If you don't think that launching explosives into a crowd won't have a maximum kill effect I don't know what to tell you, it's not the fire from the explosion that kills the most people, it's the concussion blast and shrapnel. How many did the latest shooter kill with an assault style weapon? 12 with 50 others wounded. How many people get killed by car bombs in the middle east during a typical attack? Upper double digits with triple digit non-fatal casualties during a typical event.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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  5. #685
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    Re: Why would you own an assault rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Thank you. I'll look to see where I can cross-check this data, while researching the issue.
    Wake, my dear, no offense, but if Goshin tells you something about guns, people, and crime, you can pretty much take it to the bank. He's not yanking your chain, or trying to pull something over on you. Promise.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  6. #686
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    Re: Why would you own an assault rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Okay, first off. Dependent on the magazine, not cartridge. As Goshin already pointed out typically an intermediate assault style rifle has 20-30, some go 40, BTW, and I know G is doing this for convenience, assault rifles are necessarily automatic due to the selector switch. Some guns can accomodate drum feeds that are prone to every problem Goshin pointed out, they are bulky, heavy, and jam at the worst possible time. The cartridge is the round itself, it is the total of the shell casing, bullet, and powder load, plus primer. You can't count another magazine, because you are asking me to solve for an x that has no determined value. Who's to say that someone will only have one additional mag.? Finally, it's not a "slug", only rounds that I know of are considered slugs, a shotgun "bullet".

    A crowd can be mowed down by a pistol wielding maniac, or a can of gasoline, or explosives, the latter two will cause more fatalities. If you don't think that launching explosives into a crowd won't have a maximum kill effect I don't know what to tell you, it's not the fire from the explosion that kills the most people, it's the concussion blast and shrapnel. How many did the latest shooter kill with an assault style weapon? 12 with 50 others wounded. How many people get killed by car bombs in the middle east during a typical attack? Upper double digits with triple digit non-fatal casualties during a typical event.
    While you and Goshin have provided data from experience, I'm not sure exactly where to verify this. It's not meant out of disrespect, but because undeniable accuracy is one thing that really helps with the debate & discussion process. Since you both have more experience and knowledge than me, I'll err on the side of trusting more of your posts. Hm, I don't think a pistol-wielding maniac can mow down as much people as one can with an assault rifle. Using a can of gasoline would take precision, timing, and planning for maximum effect. Explosives if detonated in the right areas at the right time are very effective.

    I'm still leery, because there are probably more factors involving this contrast than both of us have considered. If we factor in the safety of the attacker, I'd say the AR has an edge. For number of shots, I'd say the AR has an advantage b/c and RPG usually has 1-2 rockets. You can kill anyone within the 15-ft radius, but while you're reloading your rocket a squadron of cops could burst into the scene from some random angle and powder you with bullets. with an AR you could turn around quickly at the sound of their approach and if timed correctly you can spray them with bullets. Also, skill is a factor. A skilled attacker with an AR coul kill many if he/she pulls the trigger at exactly the right times in exactly the right directions.

    An RPG could wipe out a bus of people over an AR, so the RPG gets an edge on that. RPG works when the attacker know he/she can strike a dense area at the right time. An AR wielder could do the same, but would have to really spray a lot of bullets or be skillful, yet there'd be no risk of being caught in a blast. I'm not sure what the reload speed is between both guns is, either. Also, I count one magazine per one rocket. If the RPG wielder has 3 rockets, the AR wielder would have 3 magazines. You can kill more people with 3 magazines than you can with three rockets, assuming both attackers have a close level of skill.

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    Re: Why would you own an assault rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    Wake, my dear, no offense, but if Goshin tells you something about guns, people, and crime, you can pretty much take it to the bank. He's not yanking your chain, or trying to pull something over on you. Promise.
    I know he has knowledge and experience, and so long as he's respectful his opinion has much weight on the issue. That said, my heart desires unshakeable accuracy, as in objective cites, etc. Sadly in politics that's incredibly difficult to come across.

  8. #688
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    Re: Why would you own an assault rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    ...I know G is doing this for convenience, assault rifles are necessarily automatic due to the selector switch....


    Well, yes. To be precise, I keep using the phrase "assault" rifles with quotes, because most people don't know that and use the phrase indiscriminately.

    In reality we're talking about military-STYLED rifles, semi-auto with detachable magazines, and NOT actual assault rifles.... but so many people don't know the difference that they figure "scary-looking rifle" = "assault" rifle.... meh, it gives me a headache some days but whaddaya do....

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  9. #689
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    Re: Why would you own an assault rifle?

    I think of an assault rifle as any rifle that can carry a load of bullets used to mow down scores of people. Sort of like a machine gun.

  10. #690
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    Re: Why would you own an assault rifle?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    I know he has knowledge and experience, and so long as he's respectful his opinion has much weight on the issue. That said, my heart desires unshakeable accuracy, as in objective cites, etc. Sadly in politics that's incredibly difficult to come across.

    Wake, honest to my dear and fluffy goodness I DO try to be patient... but when people throw around wildly inaccurate assertions about something they CLEARLY have not studied or even learned the basics of, sometimes I get a little testy... sorry.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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