Why would you own an assault rifle?

The poll doesn't mention zombie attacks. I guess that makes sense, I'd probably get more use out of a shotgun (or a chainsaw or a machete) if/when the zombies come, depending on the situation at hand. Are the zombies coming? The Chinese? The Russians? Crazy people high on bath salts?

I don't know for sure. Neither does anyone else. That is why I prepare (thank you, Boy Scouts). When I go camping, I take a rain poncho with me even though the forecast calls for sunny skies. I have several tools in my garage that I rarely use, heck I have a tool that will cut right through a cast-iron sewer pipe that I don't ever plan on using...But if I need to use it, I have it, and I know how to use it.

My point is that a situation may arise when the ownership (and knowlege of proper use) of a semi-automatic rifle would come in very, very handy. If the zombies come, do you want to stick with that frying pan, or would you rather have something that packs a little more oomph? Exactly. If the zombies come, I either want an assault rifle or I want to be very, very good friends with someone who does.

On second thought, I'll keep my semi-auto. Here, you can use my machete (or even my sewer line cutter). Best of luck.

GJ Flash said:

The poll doesn't mention zombie attacks. I guess that makes sense, I'd probably get more use out of a shotgun (or a chainsaw or a machete) if/when the zombies come, depending on the situation at hand. Are the zombies coming? The Chinese? The Russians? Crazy people high on bath salts?

I don't know for sure. Neither does anyone else. That is why I prepare (thank you, Boy Scouts). When I go camping, I take a rain poncho with me even though the forecast calls for sunny skies. I have several tools in my garage that I rarely use, heck I have a tool that will cut right through a cast-iron sewer pipe that I don't ever plan on using...But if I need to use it, I have it, and I know how to use it.

My point is that a situation may arise when the ownership (and knowlege of proper use) of a semi-automatic rifle would come in very, very handy. If the zombies come, do you want to stick with that frying pan, or would you rather have something that packs a little more oomph? Exactly. If the zombies come, I either want an assault rifle or I want to be very, very good friends with someone who does.

On second thought, I'll keep my semi-auto. Here, you can use my machete (or even my sewer line cutter). Best of luck.

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Zombies -> semi-auto rifle FTW, better skull penetration that most shotgun loads. :mrgreen:

For those that are looking at us crosseyed and backing away slowly, we don't necessarily mean literal zombies. "Zombies" is a metaphor for "some unexpected and improbable but highly disasterous Black Swan Event."

Goshin said:

Zombies -> semi-auto rifle FTW, better skull penetration that most shotgun loads. :mrgreen:

For those that are looking at us crosseyed and backing away slowly, we don't necessarily mean literal zombies. "Zombies" is a metaphor for "some unexpected and improbable but highly disasterous Black Swan Event."

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You ever see that Sons of Guns Ruger 10/22 in a P90ish bullpup for their "Ultimate Zombie Gun"?

notquiteright said:

A lot of what ifing in this.

I don't know too many folks can make an offhand T-Box shot with only partial exposure on moving heads, the hostage taker and the hostage. Your asking a lot for some badguy to not shoot you, or cut the kid while your steady up and squeeze. You must have ice water for blood.

Most of the time you will be clearing your house, working toward the children's bedrooms, don't know about you but I like my kid's room a bit away from the parental bedroom due to my wife not being much of a pillow biter... :shock:

The problem with a shotgun is the same as bolt gun or carbine in house clearing. The barrel leads. The badguy doesn't need to grab it, simply be aware you are exactly right there. Pistols work well in room to room movement where you don't want to wave a barrel in the room before entering. (tactical movement goes MUCH farther than what weapon you use, though a shotgun when your children are in the house does seem like a poor selection.) Pieing the room before entering goes along way toward success in clearing a room.

For home defense nothing more than a revolver is needed, that some of we like high cap semi-autos, 8 round shotguns, or ARs to do the job has little to do with the job, a lot more to do with the lose nut on the trigger...

But hey 99.99999% of the home defenders will never actually have to clear rooms, T-Box a bad guy holding their daughter at knife point, or expend more than 3 rounds defending the home. Most likely some drunken, drugged up guy thinking you are easy pickings so your have to wait until you are over 70 or a single mom even then at best one round expended or just seeing the pistol will have the turd roller fleeing in terror.... eace

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most of this is somewhat true. but some is not. I'd rather have more rounds and not need them........

I reviewed a shooting out of Kalifornia

1) one bad guy armed with an old 32 caliber browning pistol-the one that was popular with French and other continental European police Departments

4) LAPD or County Sheriffs. three armed with Smith and wesson 357s with 125 grain JHP-the really good stuff-the ammo Evan Marshall's studies proved was the most effective pistol stopping round on earth

PO PO #4-870 shotgun triple ought buck


bad guy starts firing at Cop #1-cop #1 takes a minor hit to the leg-goes down but takes a kneeling position and fires all 6 shots at the mope-at least 4 are solid chest hits.

bad guy reloads and engages cop #2-hits the cop twice in the chest-body armor stops the weak 32 but the third round clips the deputy in the shoulder-that cop fires simultaneously-at least two center of mass hits. Cop #1 has speed loaders he cranks a few more rounds at the mope-hits him 3-4 times

Mope reloads and starts moving at an angle towards the guy with the leg wound. cop #3 in a flanking position blasts the mope with two rounds of buck shot-the coroner couldn't figure out how many hit but it was a lot

cop #4 breaks the mope's pelvis figuring (wrongly) the mope is wearing body armor. mope reloads and gets off 6 rounds at that cop

that cop shoots him three more times-the mope drops his now empty gun and says

I give up, I've had enough

he dies en route to the hospital

he took over a DOZEN lethal hits from really good shots using really heavy stuff

he got off over 18 rounds

Lachean said:

You ever see that Sons of Guns Ruger 10/22 in a P90ish bullpup for their "Ultimate Zombie Gun"?

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yeah I did

one of my shooting buddies-the guy who works on my AK's (he was in the Russian Naval Infantry and is an armorer) is good friends of will Haydens and was on that show a few times so we watch it to see if we can see our buddy

Lachean said:

You ever see that Sons of Guns Ruger 10/22 in a P90ish bullpup for their "Ultimate Zombie Gun"?

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Nope but I'm certainly going to have a look now.

Goshin said:

Nope but I'm certainly going to have a look now.

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Awesome, its a damn good episode.

Edit: Dammit, imma watch it again now.

TurtleDude said:

yeah I did

one of my shooting buddies-the guy who works on my AK's (he was in the Russian Naval Infantry and is an armorer) is good friends of will Haydens and was on that show a few times so we watch it to see if we can see our buddy

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Small world, of shooters, who are awesome.

Lachean said:

Awesome, its a damn good episode.

Edit: Dammit, imma watch it again now.



Small world, of shooters, who are awesome.

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I told Joe I wanted the best saiga home defense job available. I said money is no object. JOe picked one out and sent it down to Will-told him it was for a buddy. It wasn't cheap but it was less than it should have been. Galil folding stock HK combat sights with tritium inserts. extended charging handle,

ultimate Zombie apocalypse weapon for 60 yards in

TurtleDude said:

I told Joe I wanted the best saiga home defense job available. I said money is no object. JOe picked one out and sent it down to Will-told him it was for a buddy. It wasn't cheap but it was less than it should have been. Galil folding stock HK combat sights with tritium inserts. extended charging handle,

ultimate Zombie apocalypse weapon for 60 yards in

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Depends on how much 00 buck you can carry. I for one would be fine w/ my 10/22 w/ 25 rounds mags. I could pocket 300 22LR's all day. But lets not make this a Zombie Apoc thread.

Lachean said:

Depends on how much 00 buck you can carry. I for one would be fine w/ my 10/22 w/ 25 rounds mags. I could pocket 300 22LR's all day. But lets not make this a Zombie Apoc thread.

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home defense means you are not far from ammo-have a 20 round drum in the gun-2 twelve rounders on the Level III vest

use low recoil #4 tactical buck rather than triple ought

TurtleDude said:

home defense means you are not far from ammo-have a 20 round drum in the gun-2 twelve rounders on the Level III vest

use low recoil #4 tactical buck rather than triple ought

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OT: Unless you own good land, why would you be @ home during the Zombie Apoc?

Lachean said:

Those are beautiful, I'm actually watching a Nutnfancy 1911 video right now. According to him Smith makes the best 1911's; but I always wanted a Sig or Ruger. My friend swears by Springfield and Colt but those are out of my price range (for now.)

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Generally speaking, whomever makes the most expensive 1911 makes the best one... altho years ago I had a plain jane alloy Springfield 1911 and it worked just fine over probably a thousand rounds. It was cheap too, although I think they build them in South America or some such... or maybe it's some ex-communist country in Europe (or perhaps that's their plastic pistols).

Hell, Norinco (Chinese) used to make a 1911, maybe they still do -- loosey goosey but they worked. Mechanically the 1911 is a rather crude pistol, but -- it works. Not as crude as a Glock, of course :2razz:

Buddy of mine who I've lost track of (moved) who was an excellent gunsmith thought the Luger was a well designed weapon. Not too many fans in this country, however (I know practically zero about them).

Lachean said:

OT: Unless you own good land, why would you be @ home during the Zombie Apoc?

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target rich environment. plus I have a really good Howard Clark Katana-wanna see how many zombie heads I can get with one swing

Goshin-
good to see you held fire to see what was really going on... half your good friends are how many? They were what in the Green Machine? Do they still call it the Green machine or say 'FTA all the way!' ? What was their motto when they rendered a hand salute? My last unit was 'Scouts Out, Sir!".

I would hazard a few dozen soldiers have passed through Ft Benning school for bad boys since I graduated from Ft. Puke. I'll bet few call the M16a1 a Mattel Toy- an SSG from Ft. Sill's Infantry Weapons School came down to sharpen his skills says the M16a1 is now called a musket due to it's length compared to the M4. Your buddies, if they are 11Bush, don't drag a pig around.

I'm willing to bet a shiny Challenge coin there are a literal short ton of sayings and expressions that have come and gone over the decades. (had you ever heard of the 7P's before? there is at least two versions of it)

Now talking down to anyone. I believe if you go back and re-read my posts you might see someone showing they have a bit of training and some practical experience to go along with their opinion.

Never said owning an AR/AK was stupid, just sometimes folks go goofy trying to force various square pegs into rounds holes.

Yes I have a tacti-cool shotgun, used to teach it, made sense to own one to practice a bit... eace

notquiteright said:

Goshin-
good to see you held fire to see what was really going on... half your good friends are how many? They were what in the Green Machine? Do they still call it the Green machine or say 'FTA all the way!' ? What was their motto when they rendered a hand salute? My last unit was 'Scouts Out, Sir!".

I would hazard a few dozen soldiers have passed through Ft Benning school for bad boys since I graduated from Ft. Puke. I'll bet few call the M16a1 a Mattel Toy- an SSG from Ft. Sill's Infantry Weapons School came down to sharpen his skills says the M16a1 is now called a musket due to it's length compared to the M4. Your buddies, if they are 11Bush, don't drag a pig around.

I'm willing to bet a shiny Challenge coin there are a literal short ton of sayings and expressions that have come and gone over the decades. (had you ever heard of the 7P's before? there is at least two versions of it)

Now talking down to anyone. I believe if you go back and re-read my posts you might see someone showing they have a bit of training and some practical experience to go along with their opinion.

Never said owning an AR/AK was stupid, just sometimes folks go goofy trying to force various square pegs into rounds holes.

Yes I have a tacti-cool shotgun, used to teach it, made sense to own one to practice a bit... eace

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Hell I'd have to think hard to remember each one's spec.... couple of Rangers, couple of Marines (and hoo boy do they give each other hell), couple of 11Bravos, a former 11B now recruiter, a medic, a motor pool guy, and the rest I forget. Sometimes they talk in acronyms and slang so much I have bitch at them to give me a mil-spec dictionary.

Don't think I ever heard any of them say "The Green Machine", but the Marines call their service "The crotch", probably a play on "The Corps".... but heaven forbid anyone else says it. :roll:

The Rangers have an annoying habit of answering questions with "Airborne!", and to randomly interject "Rangers lead the way!" into conversations.

Lachean said:

You ever see that Sons of Guns Ruger 10/22 in a P90ish bullpup for their "Ultimate Zombie Gun"?

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That show rocks. Some advice for the anti-gun folk out there: If you insist on not owning a gun, make friends with your local gunsmith anyway. Buy them a pizza once in awhile (or a beer, even better). Trust me on this. Just in case.

I don't know if this was the episode you're talking about, this clip has them modifying an M-16:

Zombie Killer | Sons of Guns - YouTube

Stephanie: "What do you add to a full-auto M-16"?
Will: "A grenade launcher. Something that says you really care."
Then he adds a bayonet too. Must-see TV.

GJ Flash said:

That show rocks. Some advice for the anti-gun folk out there: If you insist on not owning a gun, make friends with your local gunsmith anyway. Buy them a pizza once in awhile (or a beer, even better). Trust me on this. Just in case.

I don't know if this was the episode you're talking about, this clip has them modifying an M-16:

Zombie Killer | Sons of Guns - YouTube

Stephanie: "What do you add to a full-auto M-16"?
Will: "A grenade launcher. Something that says you really care."
Then he adds a bayonet too. Must-see TV.

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Yup, thats the one, full episode is on youtube as well. Season 3 Episode 8

The gun control issue is one of the more complicated issues. With something like SSM or even tax issues you can pretty quickly come up with an opinion even if you are not well educated on the matter. Gun issues are a bit more complicated. Gun experts and LEO in general seem to be more gun-rights so that's where I lean. My POV is that rather than restricting what types of guns people can have we should restrict what kinds of people can have guns.

People who DEFINITELY should have limited or no access to firearms:

1. Convicted violent felons, or at the very least felons convicted of an aggravated violent felony

2. The mentally insane. Of course it depends on the disorder, someone with a Cluster B personality disorder (this includes psychopathy, which is the primary reason I chose Cluster B: psychopaths should have NO access to firearms as they are incapable of responsible or non-criminal use of weapons); it also includes borderline personality disorder (excessively emotional), histrionic personality disorder (excessive pathological attention-seeking), and narcissistic (arrogance with a touch of total lack of empathy)). Paranoid schizophrenics should have LIMITED access to guns because although unlike Cluster B they are not inclined towards violence, they cannot differentiate between reality and imagination and may hallucinate a burglar and end up shooting their neighbor. While registering to get a gun (something I believe could be necessary)* people should be given a psychological exam to see if they are mentally fit to own a gun.

People who reasonably could have access to firearms restricted:

1. People with ties to organized crime groups like Mexican drug cartels or Mafia

2. Non-citizens. Illegals should be given no access to weaponry.

If I were to restrict weapons I would say off-the-bat no WMDs (nukes, bio weapons, chem weapons), no explosives. If I had to restrict any firearm in particular it would be a sniper rifle. Reason being is that's past the reasonable point for self-defense - a 14.5×114mm cartrige could be fired over a mile away. I don't think people should be given access to guns like that in the highly improbable case of a revolution against the government. At that point the law is void anyway.

*I understand that criminals could find ways to get arms without registering, which makes me a bit iffy on registration. I think registration should be simple: a psychology test, background check, etc. It should be ABSOLUTELY FREE to register although a minor tax on automatics might be a little useful. Since registering would be free it would be a FELONY to get unregistered weapons in the United States of MadLib.

Goshin said:

8. Guns are not "deadly"... people are deadly. A gun in the hands of a sensible person with no criminal intent is pretty harmless.

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This is my absolutely favorite gun-rights argument. It's simultaneously stupid - because the gun-rights people don't normally restrict who can own a gun and just cuz - and sensible because people do carry out the crimes. However if we're going to get that technical then people don't kill people nor do guns - ammunition kills people. I say we legalize the guns but outlaw the ammunition :2razz:

LaMidRighter said:

So what? They are illegall in Mexico, but the cartels have them.

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Yes, they are illegal in Mexico so they get them from the US where they are legal and they can buy them through our inadequate gun control laws here.

You can thank Holder and the justice department for making it easier for them, oh, and by the way, they have more untraceable guns there than traceable, the traceable ones are from the U.S. because we are one of the few countries that require serial numbers to be included.

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They have been getting them from the US since our ban here ended, that is why a sting operation was undertaken.

Goshin said:

Besides fighting each other and the police, they find them most effective at terrorizing a population where the law abiding Mexican citizen is disarmed.

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Your reasons in bold are why they were banned in this country. And despite the fact that we are the most heavily armed country on the planet our intentional gun death rates are higher than all other wealthy populous nations.

Goshin said:

Well, yes. To be precise, I keep using the phrase "assault" rifles with quotes, because most people don't know that and use the phrase indiscriminately.

In reality we're talking about military-STYLED rifles, semi-auto with detachable magazines, and NOT actual assault rifles.... but so many people don't know the difference that they figure "scary-looking rifle" = "assault" rifle.... meh, it gives me a headache some days but whaddaya do....

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This is directed more towards the casual reader who may not know much about firearms per-se, especially our cousins across the pond who haven't served in their military.

To play devil's advocate for a moment, the following 'cosmetic' differences do affect the total performance of the firearm...

Semi-Auto Action: Allows for a higher cyclic rate than a bolt/pump/breech action without the ammunition limitation of a revolver. It's true that a revolver can fire just as fast as any semi-auto, but a magazine is much faster to change then a revolver's cylinder even with a speed loader and practice. This is why the military and the FBI now issue semi-auto pistols instead of revolvers.


Detachable Magazine: As above, allows for faster reloading, though pro-gun-control needn't worry about high capacity magazines since they are very prone to failure and are thus rarely desired by even the most zombie-apocalypse survivalist. Belt-fed systems are far superior to any high capacity mag., and belt-fed systems are beyond the common citizen's reach due to the cost and hassle of a type 3 tax stamp.


Folding/Telescopic Stock: Helps with close-quarters combat such as clearing rooms without sacrificing a longer stock needed for proper mid/long-range accuracy. I have a folding stock (and a short barrel) on my issued M249 for this very reason.


Pistol Grip: Helps the shooter acquire and maintain a proper sight picture (does pro-gun control even know what that is?) through the use of a more natural wrist/hand position.


Bayonet Mount: Makes shoulder-punches (again, does pro-gun-control even know what that is?) lethal.


Flash Suppressor: Allows the shooter to maintain night-vision. During the day, reduces chance of being detected by muzzle-flash. Helps reduce eye fatigue and maintain a proper sight picture.


I happen to believe that all of the above listed features are right and proper for the average law-abiding citizen to posses, but our pro-gun argument is weakened when we dismiss these features as merely 'cosmetic' when they do actually serve a functional purpose.

"Until "Fast and Furious," Americans knew "very little" about the flow of U.S. firearms to cartels, said Josiah Heyman, an anthropology professor at the University of Texas at El Paso and an expert on violence in Mexico and its relationship to U.S. policy."

"The flow of U.S. guns south, as Mexican drugs come north, has emerged as rival cartels increasingly wage a brutal war for control of smuggling routes, analysts said.

More than 68,000 firearms from the United States ended up in Mexico from 2007 and 2011, according to U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives statistics released in April.

The gun owners are usually a mystery: ATF authorities have been unable to determine the purchasers of half or more of the U.S. guns found in Mexico in each of those five years, ATF statistics show.

Mexican authorities report that drug trafficking organizations are more frequently using rifles such as the AK and AR variants with detachable magazines -- generally, assault rifles, the ATF said.

American firearms are in high demand because Mexico's firearm laws are highly restrictive and high-powered weapons such as the AK-47-style pistol are deemed for the exclusive use of the Mexican military, U.S. prosecutors said in court documents.

The AK-47-style pistols resemble the AK-47 assault rifle, but with shorter barrels and without a rear stock. Cartels prefer their small size, high ammo capacity and suitability for close-quarters combat, prosecutors say."

On the border: Guns, drugs -- and a betrayal of trust - CNN.com

Goshin said:

Zombies -> semi-auto rifle FTW, better skull penetration that most shotgun loads. :mrgreen:

For those that are looking at us crosseyed and backing away slowly, we don't necessarily mean literal zombies. "Zombies" is a metaphor for "some unexpected and improbable but highly disasterous Black Swan Event."

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To agree and reiterate, the whole 'zombie-apocalypse' thing is a social meme expressing a nameless fear, to vent that fear through rational thought-experiments and humor.

Zombie Meme | WeKnowMemes

IMO the current popularity of the zombie-apocalypse meme is due to the lack of terrorist attacks...that we know Jihadists are actually out there, and we're subconsciously anxious about when/where/how they'll strike next. The zombie-apocalypse meme allows us to use centuries worth of films, stories, music and games as tools to vent.

Catawba said:

ATF authorities have been unable to determine the purchasers of half or more of the U.S. guns found in Mexico in each of those five years, ATF statistics show.

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The other half, of course, we know where they came from, because we sold it to them :mrgreen: