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America's greatest sin [W:264]

What is America's greatest sin?

  • The war for independence

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • Slavery

    Votes: 27 31.4%
  • Indians / native Americans

    Votes: 31 36.0%
  • Hiroshima, Nagasaki bombing

    Votes: 3 3.5%
  • The war in Vietnam

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • The FED

    Votes: 6 7.0%
  • The Cold war

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The Civil war

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 14 16.3%
  • I can't tell

    Votes: 3 3.5%

  • Total voters
    86
There are lots of things that go against many Traditions. What we're looking for here are the relative constants that appear in almost all of the successful cultures and societies of history. Things like Patriarchal Society, Gender Roles, A Strong Code of Morals and Values, etc...

They obviously arn't that successful ... Since those societies collapsed ... and many of them were horrible.

I don't agree with that. I believe that there is an instinctive human trait to lean towards those cultures and societies whose values have proven to be the most successful. When you see something appearing in most cultures, there has to be some reason behind it. I tend to believe that reason is the human instinct.

And right now, the most successful cultures are the more egalitarian ones.
 
They obviously arn't that successful ... Since those societies collapsed ... and many of them were horrible.

All societies eventually collapse. That's part of the way the world works. Nothing lasts forever in this world.

And right now, the most successful cultures are the more egalitarian ones.

I wouldn't necessarily suggest there is a true culture or society here in the United States right now; but that's a separate issue. Human society has its highs and lows. We're in one of those lows right now and probably will be for another couple centuries.
 
Human society has its highs and lows. We're in one of those lows right now and probably will be for another couple centuries.
So, in your opinion, what were the highs?
 
All societies eventually collapse. That's part of the way the world works. Nothing lasts forever in this world.



I wouldn't necessarily suggest there is a true culture or society here in the United States right now; but that's a separate issue. Human society has its highs and lows. We're in one of those lows right now and probably will be for another couple centuries.


Just what were our highs...civil war, ww1, 2, korea, nam, somalia, iraq, afghanistan...the crusades...I dont know what the highs and lows are
 
So, in your opinion, what were the highs?

The middle ages. The early colonial period here in what is now the United States. The 1950's were probably the end of the most recent high water mark (at least here in the US).
 
The middle ages were the high?

That society stunk ... people died young, most people lived in abject poverty, and society was run by a totally unaccountable elite

The early colonial period? People wer dying at age 30.
 
The middle ages were the high?

That society stunk ... people died young, most people lived in abject poverty, and society was run by a totally unaccountable elite

The early colonial period? People wer dying at age 30.

Life is not about how LONG you live, but how PROPERLY you live the time you have. I would willingly trade a 1000 year life in the world we currently live in for a 25 year life in a decent society.
 
How property one lives ones life is up to the individual, a good society is one that is most condusive to a good and full life ....

Something which the middle ages and the early colonial era certainly was not.
 
First the society you live in has little to do with how well you live your life. If you are serious about only living to be 25 then it doesn't matter the society, all that matters is how you conduct your life. JC was crucified before he made it to 35, and from all I can tell he lived as he thought best.

Second the societies you list as 'best' would be so IF you are the firstborn white male from a rather well to do family. Due to inheritance laws you be too valuable to serve the king, so your life would be one of privilege. Many a poor son from the lands faced starvation or taking the king's shilling to survive. Do you see yourself as the son of a petty noble or the son of a landless serf?

Gender roles are interesting, England fended off the Spanish Armada under a female leader. Joan of Arc fought for France. All the while most daughters couldn't inherit, or sign contracts, yet nothing about a woman's 'role' as you see it should deny her those options.

Seems to me you consider the highs were when either an elite ruled with little rights for the common man, or when only white males could exercise full rights of citizenship.
 
How property one lives ones life is up to the individual, a good society is one that is most condusive to a good and full life.... Something which the middle ages and the early colonial era certainly was not.

How properly someone can live their life is often limited by the society around them. Ever try to do any in-person banking without having to utilize a female bank teller? Not very easy.

A good and full life is one that is lived Properly. Nothing more.
 
How properly someone can live their life is often limited by the society around them. Ever try to do any in-person banking without having to utilize a female bank teller? Not very easy.

A good and full life is one that is lived Properly. Nothing more.

I think you'd settle well into life in Saudi Arabia.
 
I think you'd settle well into life in Saudi Arabia.

Exactly.

Real men are supposed to be afraid of working females don't yah know?

It's a sign of true masculinity to be terrified of a person with a vagina.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Let's get back on topic please. The poll options are on page 1 of this thread and all off topic comments need to cease right now.
 
Re: America's greatest sin

First the society you live in has little to do with how well you live your life. If you are serious about only living to be 25 then it doesn't matter the society, all that matters is how you conduct your life.

The only problem with that is the fact that when one has to interact with society, it becomes much more difficult at times to find places in general society that keep to any level of decency and propriety anymore.

Second the societies you list as 'best' would be so IF you are the firstborn white male from a rather well to do family. Due to inheritance laws you be too valuable to serve the king, so your life would be one of privilege. Many a poor son from the lands faced starvation or taking the king's shilling to survive. Do you see yourself as the son of a petty noble or the son of a landless serf?

Either way. The concept is to know your place, accept it, and to live within it. It's that simple. Whether Pope or peasant.

Seems to me you consider the highs were when either an elite ruled with little rights for the common man, or when only white males could exercise full rights of citizenship.

It's about having a society where people know, accept, and embrace their place in the world. Nothing more and nothing less.
 
Re: America's greatest sin

If the Moderator would allow me to reply-

America's greatest sin, according to Tigger, is throwing off the rigid caste system where a man was born in a station of life and remained 'in his place'. I suppose minorities should mind their place as well... :roll:

I don't see how using a female teller diminishes one's sense of propriety, anymore than using a female serving wench at the local eatery.
 
Ever try to do any in-person banking without having to utilize a female bank teller? Not very easy.

Tough, you don't like it ... keep your money in a pillow ... in the middle ages chances are you would'nt be able to do ANY banking if you were the majority of everyone, and in the colonial era try do banking without the very real risk of your money just not existing a couple years later.

A good and full life is one that is lived Properly. Nothing more.

Properly according to who????

You say just basic values ... obviously not the ones most people in history have had, empathy, equality, freedom, creativity, peace and so on.
 
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