View Poll Results: What is America's greatest sin?

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  • The war for independence

    1 1.02%
  • Slavery

    32 32.65%
  • Indians / native Americans

    35 35.71%
  • Hiroshima, Nagasaki bombing

    3 3.06%
  • The war in Vietnam

    2 2.04%
  • The FED

    7 7.14%
  • The Cold war

    0 0%
  • The Civil war

    0 0%
  • Other

    15 15.31%
  • I can't tell

    3 3.06%
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Thread: America's greatest sin [W:264]

  1. #121
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Then we are so completely and totally on opposite sides of the coin
    No sh*t! That's a given.

    that I don't believe we can even see each other anymore.
    I see you just fine. I'm a bit of a specialist in mediaeval European history. I can easily see where you're drawing your ideas from.
    No sense in continuing this particular discussion then, is there?
    Well, that's up to you. I thought we were having an interesting exchange without too much rancour across the ideological chasm. You weren't expecting to convince me of your position though, were you? I certainly wasn't expecting to make you an anarchist anytime soon.

    I think you're missing the point of what I'm talking about. Universal Morality is a concept that looks at society as a whole. It describes how human beings should think, speak, act, etc.... Obviously it differentiates between women, Men, and children as all have separate and different places in society. What is proper for a woman is likely not for a Man. What is Universal about it is that the family in Oshkosh, WI, USA should have the same standard of Morality as the one in Jordan, the one in Moscow, the one in Saigon, etc....
    I was certainly missing that. I thought the point of universal morality was that one moral code would apply universally, i.e. to every human being equally such that one accepts as a fundamental truth that what is good and acceptable behaviour for you should similarly be accepted as good and acceptable behaviour for everyone else. I thought you were talking about this.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

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  2. #122
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I see you just fine. I'm a bit of a specialist in mediaeval European history. I can easily see where you're drawing your ideas from.
    Then you're one of very few.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Well, that's up to you. I thought we were having an interesting exchange without too much rancour across the ideological chasm. You weren't expecting to convince me of your position though, were you? I certainly wasn't expecting to make you an anarchist anytime soon.
    I do not ever expect to change anyone's mind on anything. That would be a waste of time. As would trying to change my mind be. So long as we're both aware of those things, we should be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I was certainly missing that. I thought the point of universal morality was that one moral code would apply universally, i.e. to every human being equally such that one accepts as a fundamental truth that what is good and acceptable behaviour for you should similarly be accepted as good and acceptable behaviour for everyone else. I thought you were talking about this.
    No, that's not what I was talking about. "Universal Morality" is simply a term I have come up with to explain the idea that there should be one set of morality for the entire planet. No exceptions. No caveats. What I'm talking about is slightly different than the link you attached. Mine is a general system of morals and values that applies on a societal level, whereas what you were thinking about goes all the way down to an individual level.

  3. #123
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    No, that's not what I was talking about. "Universal Morality" is simply a term I have come up with to explain the idea that there should be one set of morality for the entire planet. No exceptions. No caveats. What I'm talking about is slightly different than the link you attached. Mine is a general system of morals and values that applies on a societal level, whereas what you were thinking about goes all the way down to an individual level.
    Well, the issue there is defining that one moral code for the whole planet. No one's managed it yet and I can't see it happening any time soon. There are societies where women dominate and are the main decision-makers (parts of Siberia, South Seas, C and W Africa) and I think it likely that matriarchal societies are going to naturally conflict with patriarchal, and egalitarian systems. How would you go about creating a hegemony? Conquest?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  4. #124
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Well, the issue there is defining that one moral code for the whole planet. No one's managed it yet and I can't see it happening any time soon. There are societies where women dominate and are the main decision-makers (parts of Siberia, South Seas, C and W Africa) and I think it likely that matriarchal societies are going to naturally conflict with patriarchal, and egalitarian systems. How would you go about creating a hegemony? Conquest?
    In a single word, YES. If that is not possible, you isolate them, limit their ability to survive, and wear them away like that.

  5. #125
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    In a single word, YES. If that is not possible, you isolate them, limit their ability to survive, and wear them away like that.
    Y'see Tigger, we're not that far apart. Those are exactly the tactics I think should be applied to bringing down capitalism.







    (Half joking , btw)
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  6. #126
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Y'see Tigger, we're not that far apart. Those are exactly the tactics I think should be applied to bringing down capitalism.
    Here's the difference......

    When something horrific happens in a Capitalist society, they don't turn to France or England to fix the problem. However, when a Tsunami hits Japan or Mexico City falls down in an earthquake, they expect the US to be there 20 minutes later to fix the problem. Part of the problem is that we don't send these countries the bill afterwards. Just like we released all the nations of their debt for rebuilding after WWII.

  7. #127
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Here's the difference......

    When something horrific happens in a Capitalist society, they don't turn to France or England to fix the problem. However, when a Tsunami hits Japan or Mexico City falls down in an earthquake, they expect the US to be there 20 minutes later to fix the problem. Part of the problem is that we don't send these countries the bill afterwards. Just like we released all the nations of their debt for rebuilding after WWII.
    but yet it took the UK 40 years to pay back her war debt to the US....
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

  8. #128
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    but yet it took the UK 40 years to pay back her war debt to the US....

    There's a long history of the US and UK being closely allied, politically, militarily and culturally. Lots of countries without such close ties feel much less obligated to try to pay their debts.

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  9. #129
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Higgins86 View Post
    but yet it took the UK 40 years to pay back her war debt to the US....
    Plus Japan actually declined a lot of help, and in 2009, when Brazil was rocked by massive landslides, they didn't ask for or accept any aid.

    Despite what we like to think, the world wouldn't fall apart if the US wasn't here.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Despite what we like to think, the world wouldn't fall apart if the US wasn't here.
    Let's test that theory.

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