View Poll Results: What is America's greatest sin?

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  • The war for independence

    1 1.02%
  • Slavery

    32 32.65%
  • Indians / native Americans

    35 35.71%
  • Hiroshima, Nagasaki bombing

    3 3.06%
  • The war in Vietnam

    2 2.04%
  • The FED

    7 7.14%
  • The Cold war

    0 0%
  • The Civil war

    0 0%
  • Other

    15 15.31%
  • I can't tell

    3 3.06%
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Thread: America's greatest sin [W:264]

  1. #111
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    This thread is ridiculous!

    "America's greatest sin" -- what a joke!

    None of those items on that list are a "sin". How naive can a person be?!

    Every one of those things is just an example of people being people, human nature exemplified, in true Darwinian dog-eat-dog survival of the fittest fashion -- nothing sinful about that whatsoever! It's simply the way we are.

    Now I know there are some wimpy-ass folks who like to imagine that our new lobes make us into some kind of god-like beings, where we have "dominion" over our basic animalistic survival instincts and that it's supposedly some kind of "good" thing to bend over and turn the other cheeks to let those who are a threat to us in some way and whom we could otherwise utilize to our survival's benefit instead ream us a new one, as if that's the "civilized" thing to do.

    But isn't it pretty darn obvious how ridiculous that sounds?!

    We are where we are today because we saw the threat and took the opportunity to dispose of it the best way available to us, turning it into an advantage for us in true Darwinian American fashion.

    I mean, just look at our socioeconomic system. It's the finest example of a hugely competitive win-lose dynamic on the planet, the best exemplified epitome of raw human nature today's highly developed intelligent mechanics of our brainy sophistication has to offer.

    And just because a few stick-in-the-mud PIGS aren't able to play the game well doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the game like these so-called "99-Percenters" keep whining about -- I mean, hell, next thing you know they'll be wanting to give the gold medal to the guy who comes in last in an Olympic event! Absolutely absurd!

    Competition to the survialist extreme is what America is all about, and if a few losers end up taking it in the short-hairs, man that's simply the way God intended it, and if you don't know that then you are simply behind in your Old Testament reading, where God helped the Israelites as they slew this enemy and that enemy "and God saw that it was good".

    I mean Jeez!

    This is all so nonsensical! So, what, was the sub-prime securities situation that fostered the September 2008 corporate credit crunch and massive spike in unemployment a sin too? Were those speculators "evil" people who sinned against their fellow Americans? Hell no! They simply turned what they knew was going to be a losing proposition into a huge win for themselves, nothing more. Sinful? Absolutely not! And just because they did it all in secret, hiding it well until the end, does that make them "bad"? Absolutely not -- that just made them really smart and super-fit! Hell, Darwin himself would be proud of what they did as exemplary fittest behavior, turning an apparent losing situation into a win-lose proposition; a win for them and a loss for the other guy.

    I mean, it's so utterly ridiculous to call any of this a sin when it's simply human nature evidenced for eons that next some will be calling investors and corporate execs sinful just because they implicitly conspired to outsource scores of millions of American jobs to foreign wage-slaves, when the rules of our very economic system itself demand that they do so or lose money! What would you want them to do, purposely lose the corporate competition so that everyone, even losers, get to keep on playing? Why heck, if they did that, they'd go out of business, and then all of their employees would be looking for work! They played the game perfectly, just as all those did in the OP "sin" list, just the way the game is defined. And that's a "sin"??? Ridiculous!

    Yes, to call that and any on the OP list a "sin" is absolutely absurd, just as absurd as it would be to change the rules of chess so that nobody loses -- who would want to play that game??? That would suck the motivation right out of it!

    And to all those who complain about nukes, if America had never used ours, no one would have known they existed, and then in secret someone could have developed a ton and started using them to control the world! Now everyone knows about them and everyone has or is getting them, thereby keeping a MAD peace in the world to keep us all surviving, the fittest way humanity knows how .. so none of this belly-aching about nukes or bio-weapons and the like, as that simply makes no sense whatsoever.

    Yes, all the whiners, all the "apologists" for human nature, all the losers in the age-old exhaulted games of human dog-eat-dog natural selective survival .. if they have such a damn problem with the normal course of human events, then obviously they would prefer not to be a part of humanity, and considering how over-populated with losers we are right now since the last normal-course-of-human-events recession, rather than keep on lifting them up and helping them to keep on living and breeding like rabbits, it's better that we just cut 'em loose and let 'em die .. and thereby decrease the surplus population.

    That'd be a whole lot better than to sacrifice our country and our people to being a part of the losers' global economy where we all descend to the level of the poorest, all being equally bad off, functioning collectively in dependency, until, for lack of anything else fun to do that we can afford, we breed ourselves into self-inflicted extinction.

    America's "sins"???

    My ass!
    A descriptive claim is not the same as a normative claim.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  2. #112
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    So you must agree that the "sin" is giving into all this victimology, self-loathing and worshipping at the altar of "WE MUST REPENT! AND THEREFORE WE MUST SPEND OURSELVES INTO OBLIVION" crapola....
    Of course. You can't admit failings without out of control deficits, everybody knows that.

    Or we could remove our partisan glasses for a second, and admit that not EVERYTHING ever done here is good.


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    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  3. #113
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Or we could remove our partisan glasses for a second, and admit that not EVERYTHING ever done here is good.







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  4. #114
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Then what other means should be used to create a singular, proper societal and cultural norm in a nation?
    I think the nation state is obsolete as the fundamental building block of human society. It is more important that we share values across national borders, not within them, thus those borders begin to wither away. There's a high degree of historical inevitability to the decline of all nation states. When that decline occurs, what's left to guide social cohesion?


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    Universal as in, the overall standard applies to all individuals, whether they choose to accept it or not. It has nothing to do with indivual people it's a collective ideal.
    Well, you've made it very clear that you want widely different standards to apply to women than to men, hence you ain't no universalist.
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  5. #115
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by kmiller1610 View Post
    So you must agree that the "sin" is giving into all this victimology, self-loathing and worshipping at the altar of "WE MUST REPENT! AND THEREFORE WE MUST SPEND OURSELVES INTO OBLIVION" crapola....
    You'll probably remember that all this repentence schtick was popularised by this Jewish dude who lived in Roman Palestine a while ago. Don't blame the liberals, blame the Christians.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  6. #116
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Or we could remove our partisan glasses for a second, and admit that not EVERYTHING ever done here is good.
    In the eyes of many, that would be un-American.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  7. #117
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I think the nation state is obsolete as the fundamental building block of human society. It is more important that we share values across national borders, not within them, thus those borders begin to wither away. There's a high degree of historical inevitability to the decline of all nation states. When that decline occurs, what's left to guide social cohesion?
    Then we are so completely and totally on opposite sides of the coin that I don't believe we can even see each other anymore. No sense in continuing this particular discussion then, is there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Well, you've made it very clear that you want widely different standards to apply to women than to men, hence you ain't no universalist.
    I think you're missing the point of what I'm talking about. Universal Morality is a concept that looks at society as a whole. It describes how human beings should think, speak, act, etc.... Obviously it differentiates between women, Men, and children as all have separate and different places in society. What is proper for a woman is likely not for a Man. What is Universal about it is that the family in Oshkosh, WI, USA should have the same standard of Morality as the one in Jordan, the one in Moscow, the one in Saigon, etc....

  8. #118
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    This thread is ridiculous!

    "America's greatest sin" -- what a joke!

    None of those items on that list are a "sin". How naive can a person be?!

    etc etc ect...

    My ass!
    Hats off to you sir. However, methinks kmiller is thinking on a different wavelength to you...
    Last edited by Londoner; 07-31-12 at 03:02 PM.

  9. #119
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I think the nation state is obsolete as the fundamental building block of human society. It is more important that we share values across national borders, not within them, thus those borders begin to wither away. There's a high degree of historical inevitability to the decline of all nation states. When that decline occurs, what's left to guide social cohesion?
    I think choice will always be needed and its not wise for your own safety or your freedom to cut that away and build one huge country under one government.
    Last edited by Henrin; 07-31-12 at 03:04 PM.

  10. #120
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I think choice will always be needed and its not wise for your own safety or your freedom to cut that away and build one huge country under one government.
    You think I'm arguing for a World government? I'm arguing for communes based on community and workplace and no central government at all. Interesting you mention 'choice' however. What choice are we currently allowed?
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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