View Poll Results: What is America's greatest sin?

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  • The war for independence

    1 1.02%
  • Slavery

    32 32.65%
  • Indians / native Americans

    35 35.71%
  • Hiroshima, Nagasaki bombing

    3 3.06%
  • The war in Vietnam

    2 2.04%
  • The FED

    7 7.14%
  • The Cold war

    0 0%
  • The Civil war

    0 0%
  • Other

    15 15.31%
  • I can't tell

    3 3.06%
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Thread: America's greatest sin [W:264]

  1. #91
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Probably slavery and the treatment of native peoples were the worst sins in America's past.

    But that around 66% acknowledge that today in a poll on an internet forum, in 2012, and say it was disgraceful, is probably proof for the good intentions living inside America today.
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    I have to ask a question to all of you who are including the treatment of the Native Americans in your list....

    What else is a conquering force supposed to do with a still potentially hostile foreign force that may attempt to counter-attack? They will not embrace the new culture and assimilate. They are not happy about the idea of moving to another location. What else were we supposed to do with them.

    P.S. - Answers to this question should be based in REALITY, not the happy sunshine, gumdrops, and rainbows, bull**** philosophy that everyone can "just get along".

  3. #93
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    The mission creep of the federal gov't is our major sin and likely to be our ultimate downfall as a nation. The constitution was a well thought out compromise on individual freedoms, national control/identity and with ALL ELSE being left to the several states. We had gradually (but at an ever accelerating rate) been elevating EVERYTHING to the federal gov't level, manly because of the wonderful ability that it ALONE posesses to BORROW and spend more than taxation will cover.


    The constitution clearly does NOT give the federal gov't any power over education, yet the fastest growing, cabinet level federal department is DOEd; it now provides about 10% of all state's budgets. It allows the states to spend FAR more than they need to tax yet have "balanced" budgets; as such they are dependent on the federal control (mandates) that accompany this "free" money. Other such "partnerships" exist within social programs (again most NOT constituional) like Medicaid that allows the states to spend "free" money but ONLY if they agree to INSANE (and unconstitutional) federal rules.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-31-12 at 12:22 PM.
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    It's interesting to apply different POVs to this question. One is what was the most damaging to to us now, i.e. the after effects. In my judgement it was how we treated the 'Indians' and then we allowed slavery. For example, when you think of how Jefferson behaved, thinking he was a good slave owner and enjoying one of his woman slaves and their children for many years, by today's standards, you have to question if our for-fathers got our Constitution absolutely correct.
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 07-31-12 at 12:29 PM.

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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    What else is a conquering force supposed to do with a still potentially hostile foreign force that may attempt to counter-attack? They will not embrace the new culture and assimilate. They are not happy about the idea of moving to another location. What else were we supposed to do with them.
    that's not true at all...the Cherokee nation was assimilating.....yet the removal act was still passed.
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    that's not true at all...the Cherokee nation was assimilating.....yet the removal act was still passed.
    During the formation of our nation, leading to its current borders, it was not a question of "native" rights so much as preventing OTHER foreigh powers from gaining control of the territories that we now hold and enjoy. The same conquering of indigenous peoples occured worldwide for centuries, yeilding the modern, and now fairly stable, global boundaries. If not the U.S. then Spain, England, Portugal or France would have "claimed" these territories. The native tribes of north America were doomed either way as they could not hold off the superior power of ANY of these "conquering" national forces, just as we saw in all other continents.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    During the formation of our nation, leading to its current borders, it was not a question of "native" rights so much as preventing OTHER foreigh powers from gaining control of the territories that we now hold and enjoy. The same conquering of indigenous peoples occured worldwide for centuries, yeilding the modern, and now fairly stable, global boundaries. If not the U.S. then Spain, England, Portugal or France would have "claimed" these territories. The native tribes of north America were doomed either way as they could not hold off the superior power of ANY of these "conquering" national forces, just as we saw in all other continents.
    But it would have been better done by private companies, not a government. Right? Oh, but I forgot, a lot of it was.

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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    But it would have been better done by private companies, not a government. Right? Oh, but I forgot, a lot of it was.
    I am not sure that you see my point. It was not IF but WHEN, and by WHO, that the indigenous people (tribes) would lose control of these areas. The same thing occured on ALL continents, not just in North America. It is not as if the U.S. did not take over these lands that the native tribes would still have them, although I must agree we were very underhanded in not making this clear to them. If you are unable to defend your territory, or secure the help of allies to assist you, then it will be taken; how long do you suppose that Israel would have lasted without its allied support? In some cases might does indeed make right. ;-)
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I have to ask a question to all of you who are including the treatment of the Native Americans in your list....

    What else is a conquering force supposed to do with a still potentially hostile foreign force that may attempt to counter-attack?
    Question the value of and justification for conquest?

    This is not to single out the white Anglo-American settlers. They conducted a horrific campaign of genocide in a time-honoured tradition, one that would have been familiar to Romans, Mongols, Spanish, Turks, Huns and many more historical imperial powers. Indeed ethnic cleansing continues to this day, albeit on a smaller, less bloody scale. I think my point is that expansionist imperialism has always been a brutal and unnecessary activity that simply works to satisfy a base instinct for greed, rapaciousness and sadism by clothing it in the trappings of nationalism and glory-seeking. Often these base impulses are excused through the invention of intellectually weak but emotionally attractive ideas such as exceptionalism and 'manifest destiny'. Again, it's not just Americans who have hidden behind such cant. It's what imperialists do to cover their tracks and to try to claim legitimacy for their actions.
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    re: America's greatest sin [W:264]

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Question the value of and justification for conquest?

    This is not to single out the white Anglo-American settlers. They conducted a horrific campaign of genocide in a time-honoured tradition, one that would have been familiar to Romans, Mongols, Spanish, Turks, Huns and many more historical imperial powers. Indeed ethnic cleansing continues to this day, albeit on a smaller, less bloody scale. I think my point is that expansionist imperialism has always been a brutal and unnecessary activity that simply works to satisfy a base instinct for greed, rapaciousness and sadism by clothing it in the trappings of nationalism and glory-seeking. Often these base impulses are excused through the invention of intellectually weak but emotionally attractive ideas such as exceptionalism and 'manifest destiny'. Again, it's not just Americans who have hidden behind such cant. It's what imperialists do to cover their tracks and to try to claim legitimacy for their actions.
    Why doesn't it surprise me that you devalue ideals such as Nationalism, Exceptionalism, and Greed? Believe it or not, there is more to life than sunshine and lollipops. Not everyone gets a trophy in the real world. You have to break a couple eggs to make an omelette. Your ideal of peace and happiness is totally unrealistic on any signifiant level.

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