View Poll Results: Obama Tax Supporters=What is more Important to You

Voters
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  • Saving the tax cuts for yourself (and the rich)

    1 6.25%
  • Sticking it to the rich with a tax hike for everyone

    15 93.75%
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Thread: Obama Tax supporters=what is more important to you

  1. #101
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    Re: Obama Tax supporters=what is more important to you

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    1) Keeping the Bush/Obama tax rates for the "middle class"


    2) sticking it to the rich with a tax hike
    Thanks to a rare action of decency by the Democrats, this choice is no longer mutually exclusive.

  2. #102
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    Re: Obama Tax supporters=what is more important to you

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the war on poverty wasted billions, spent more than the entire worth of the fortune five hundred, created massive intergenerational dependence and massive numbers of robotic dem voters (which was the purpose al along)
    Thanks for the far right view of poverty reduction.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #103
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    Re: Obama Tax supporters=what is more important to you

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Thanks for the far right view of poverty reduction.
    A free market lets people suffer enough that they can no longer afford to give the rich their money, and hence the rich eventually suffer their own dominance in a truly free market, and it destabilizes and resets.

    It's the blended (capitalist/communist) system that preserves the wealth/power gap, by making both the powerful and powerless happy. The powerful remain happy because their dominance is guaranteed, and the powerless are happy because their basic needs are guaranteed. The only real weakness of the blended system is the national debt. When that finally catches up to us, the whole game is over. Do you honestly doubt it will ever catch up to us? Or are you just praying it won't be in your lifetime?

  4. #104
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    Re: Obama Tax supporters=what is more important to you

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    A free market lets people suffer enough that they can no longer afford to give the rich their money, and hence the rich eventually suffer their own dominance in a truly free market, and it destabilizes and resets.

    It's the blended (capitalist/communist) system that preserves the wealth/power gap, by making both the powerful and powerless happy. The powerful remain happy because their dominance is guaranteed, and the powerless are happy because their basic needs are guaranteed. The only real weakness of the blended system is the national debt. When that finally catches up to us, the whole game is over. Do you honestly doubt it will ever catch up to us? Or are you just praying it won't be in your lifetime?
    I have no idea what you are talking about. What I see is a working class that has suffered enough to decide there is no longer a reason to continue to allow the continuation of the Bush tax cuts for the rich.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  5. #105
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    Re: Obama Tax supporters=what is more important to you

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    A free market lets people suffer enough that they can no longer afford to give the rich their money, and hence the rich eventually suffer their own dominance in a truly free market, and it destabilizes and resets.

    It's the blended (capitalist/communist) system that preserves the wealth/power gap, by making both the powerful and powerless happy. The powerful remain happy because their dominance is guaranteed, and the powerless are happy because their basic needs are guaranteed. The only real weakness of the blended system is the national debt. When that finally catches up to us, the whole game is over. Do you honestly doubt it will ever catch up to us? Or are you just praying it won't be in your lifetime?
    The system you describe, free market without any government oversight doesn't exist, and really never did in the modern world. And really can't, because left unfereded, someone wins, and it becomes something else altogether.

    Now, we do have a problem with the winners we have today setting the rules, and this stacking the game in their favor. Goevernment is suppose to curtail that a little more than it has been. Because of the money relationship between the haves and politicians, both feeding each other, it is very difficult for government to hold this in check. I think you see this based on your post. What hurts is the middle class, which without the entire game does fall down. With a smaller middle, the illusion of anyoen can be rich becomes harder to swollow. The few exceptions become seen for what they are, exceptions. We need a strong middle class to make the system work.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #106
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    Re: Obama Tax supporters=what is more important to you

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I have no idea what you are talking about. What I see is a working class that has suffered enough to decide there is no longer a reason to continue to allow the continuation of the Bush tax cuts for the rich.
    That's because your partisan goggles can't focus on far-sighted objects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The system you describe, free market without any government oversight doesn't exist,
    Well that's not what I described.

    Now, we do have a problem with the winners we have today setting the rules, and this stacking the game in their favor.
    I would love to sit down with you and Catawba to a game of Monopoly. Hell I'd even supply the scotch and stogies. Because welfare policies are akin to getting a $500 every time you land on a property of someone else who already owns half the board and has, for the most part, already won the game, and what they charge breaks your bank once again. There's no escaping this scenario, so long as you're persuaded to keep playing by the promises of meager handouts/bailouts every time you fall upon bankruptcy. That just prolongs the game that has already, for all real intents and purposes, ended.

    Goevernment is suppose to curtail that a little more than it has been. Because of the money relationship between the haves and politicians, both feeding each other, it is very difficult for government to hold this in check. I think you see this based on your post. What hurts is the middle class, which without the entire game does fall down. With a smaller middle, the illusion of anyoen can be rich becomes harder to swollow. The few exceptions become seen for what they are, exceptions. We need a strong middle class to make the system work.
    Then let me tell you something I believe in completely: a strong middle class relies on neither the rich nor the government.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-26-12 at 04:19 AM.

  7. #107
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    Re: Obama Tax supporters=what is more important to you

    Then let me tell you something I believe in completely: a strong middle class relies on neither the rich nor the government.

    Thats not what the rich tell us...they tell us we have to cut their taxs so they can create middleclass jobs...you sir live in lalaland like so many other blind partisans....dispute this fact...

    In the last 20 yrs the richest americans and corporations have had their tax responsiblity cut fully in half....guys like romney making millions pay less a percentage than people making 300,000...corporations like GE pay zero in taxs.
    While the rich enjoyed massive tax cuts and and offshoring most of their money to avoid taxs....they were outsourcing millions of decent paying jobs...putting middle class america OUT OF WORK and not able to pay taxs....your entire post is hyperbole...

  8. #108
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    Re: Obama Tax supporters=what is more important to you

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Then let me tell you something I believe in completely: a strong middle class relies on neither the rich nor the government.
    Thats not what the rich tell us...they tell us we have to cut their taxs so they can create middleclass jobs...you sir live in lalaland like so many other blind partisans....dispute this fact...
    Dispute what fact? I never suggested we should believe whatever bull**** the rich are telling us today. My previous comment stands. A strong middle class doesn't suckle its strength from a strong federal government or from the rich themselves. A strong middle class stands on its own. How can a middle class be considered strong if it utterly relies on something much greater than itself to be sustained? That is the opposite of strong. That is called "dependent."

    In the last 20 yrs the richest americans and corporations have had their tax responsiblity cut fully in half....guys like romney making millions pay less a percentage than people making 300,000...corporations like GE pay zero in taxs.
    While the rich enjoyed massive tax cuts and and offshoring most of their money to avoid taxs....they were outsourcing millions of decent paying jobs...putting middle class america OUT OF WORK and not able to pay taxs....your entire post is hyperbole...
    You're either drunk or you're carelessly misusing the term 'hyperbole.'

  9. #109
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    Re: Obama Tax supporters=what is more important to you

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you make lots of assumptions from an obvious position of ignorance. how do you know that another 30-50K in taxes is not going to affect lifestyles.

    what makes people making a few hundred K a year any different than people in the upper middle class who are one medical emergency or firing away from being way over extended.

    the tax is not based on how much money you have left over but what you take in and if you spend a lot-bought a big house based on the Bush tax rates, have three kids at Amherst or Cornell etc you don't have much extra

    People like you think that the "rich" only have the same monthly expenses you do which is idiotic
    Ok, if we assume that we are talking about 30,000 dollars being gained from letting the tax cuts for the wealthy expire, thus making the top marginal tax rate go up 4%, and assuming the other tax cuts stay in place, thus making your original taxes for the first 250,000 of earned income the same, you would have to earn 1 million dollars exactly. They'll be alright, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  10. #110
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    Re: Obama Tax supporters=what is more important to you

    The current tax rates should stay as they are until the federal government proves that they are willing to cut spending significantly.

    But, given the Democrat's reluctance to cut any spending...except for the military...I have no hope that we will ever achieve a resolution for our dilemma. At some point our government's financial situation is going to fold like a house of cards.
    TANSTAAFL

    “An armed society is a polite society.”
    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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